Sign of the Times (fitness)

[Vicki]

I agree with SR540 - my personal experience is that there is a lot of development that happens between 7th and 9th grades. Very personal experience - son 2 was a bit of a chubster until he hit freshman year. Marching band and soccer, then wrestling, then volleyball - body fat ratio probably fell 75%, I actually started worrying about him eating enough. I can guarantee you pullups would not be a problem for him now, but they definitely were when he was doing the rank requirements. Same case for several of our scouts.

 

Vicki

[Beavah]

Very personal experience - son 2 was a bit of a chubster until he hit freshman year. Marching band and soccer, then wrestling, then volleyball ...

 

So in other words, he needed to get fit in order to make da requirements.

 

Doesn't sound like an age thing. Sounds like he hit a place (high school) where the activities he was involved in actually pushed him to reach a decent level of fitness.

 

Isn't that what we're supposed to be doing in Scouting? Fitness is one of our Aims.

 

[Vicki]

No, Beav, meeting the requirements made him fit. He didn't do anything except participate.

 

Sure, if it's something they want to do, they'll do it. I don't think adolescents are alone in that viewpoint.

 

But calisthenics aren't fun, which clemlaw pointed out here. I don't think measuring fitness for younger scouts is productive because they don't have the incentives older scouts have - or the options, for that matter. Athletics (as in team sports), at least in our area, aren't emphasized until high school and gym class has been scaled way back.

 

Making it fun would be the goal - my family started backpacking when I was about 11. I loved to swim, too. But you would never catch me "exercising."

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[Beavah]

Who said anything about "exercising?"

 

Climb trees, climb rocks, chase each other through the woods, ride mountain bikes, go snowshoeing.

 

Making it about "exercise" shows a lack of imagination on da part of the adult leaders. Yeh see that a lot with BSA advancement. Have to "teach to the test."

 

Point is that your son's sports actually pushed him, eh? Pushed him physically, pushed him socially. I've never heard anyone call runnin' suicides for soccer "fun", or consider a wrestling practice "easy." It's hard, eh? It's only "fun" because it's with friends, and because you're being pushed hard enough to start seeing results.

 

Scoutin' can be "fun" much more of the time, but if yeh want lads to grow it also has to be hard. We have to push 'em a bit. Make that 5.9 climb. Do the mile swim at camp. Paddle a 50-miler afloat. Bike a century. Win da patrol obstacle course relay.

 

In fact, if yeh have effective patrol method and patrol competitions, it's a lot like sports, eh? The kids push each other to improve, so they can "win" at da next patrol contest.

 

If yeh follow the topics on da forums, it seems like there are always folks lookin' to interpret things as narrowly as possible. For cycling MB, what's da minimum way I can complete da miles, overlapping with other trips? How do I count camping nights to get the most to count? For climbing MB, yeh only "have" to do one climb, don't add to da requirements... For da 5 mile hike, can that be only 2.5 miles one way? Can I do it on a track?

 

Bah, humbug!

 

If yeh really get kids climbing, and paddlin', and cycling, and hiking then yeh actually see some growth and results, just like if yeh actually get kids workin' hard at soccer or wrestling. If the lads don't have other incentive or opportunities, provide 'em the incentive and opportunity in Scouting.

 

Can't see that just givin' 'em a "bye" - "ooh, I saw his elbow bend" - really accomplishes much.

 

Beavah

 

[Vicki]

beav, I believe we may be talking at cross purposes or,as I like to say, in vehement agreement.

 

Vicki

[Beavah]

Yah, that's part of da fun, eh?

 

If people hear similar things but in different ways from different folks, one of the ways they hear it may "click" and give 'em a good idea for their program.

 

I figure that's da only real purpose of forums like this one, eh? Just to spread ideas around. I'm a total Darwinist about ideas. I figure the most successful ones survive and reproduce.

 

Beavah

 

[qwazse]

I gave my personal take in the other thread, but the bottom line ...

 

Benchmark, Excersize Daily, See Results

 

That's what we're trying to get into the boys (and often, parents) heads.

[Chippewa29]

I'm a bit biased on this subject, as I sell exercise equipment for a living and have coached high school track and cross country for years. I am a firm believer in keeping physically fit and think that of all aims of the BSA, this is where we fall short the most. Physical activity and fitness is definitely an important component of Scouting, but it is just one component of Scouting. If we make Scouting all about physical fitness, then we can be neglecting other areas.

 

Expectation levels should be high for the physical fitness component. For example, the Tenderfoot requirement specifies that the Scout should be tested for fitness twice about thirty days apart. To actually pass, the Scout has to improve from one time to the next. Many times, once a Scout "suffers" through the second testing, they are automatically passed. If a Scout "practices" for 30 days in between, he will almost always improve in the different areas. The idea behind the requirement is to get the Scout to understand how developing his body is important and to start developing the habits of keeping his body in good shape (Personal Fitness merit badge helps to reinforce that).

 

There are two cases where I will pass a Scout for that requirement if they don't improve in all the areas.

1. The Scout is already at a high fitness level. We had a Scout this year who at his first try, was able to do 52 situps in a minute. A month later, he only did fifty. That is an extraordinarily high level for an 11 year old kid. On the other hand, if he had done ten and then decreased to eight, I wouldn't have passed him.

2. As a couple of people have mentioned, some young kids just don't have the upper body strength to do pullups. Several years back, I had a Scout who on his first test did six push ups, eleven sit ups, 3' 2" in the standing long jump, 2:08 in the 400m, and no pull ups. I alked with him and his dad about working on those things and ways he could improve. he kept a log and worked out 23 of the next 30 days. He improved to 15 push ups, 28 sit ups, 4'6" in the long jump, and 1:45 in the 400m. He still couldn't do a pull up. We passed him because he definitely fulfilled the intent of the requirement.

 

As leaders, we definitely need to be setting the example. Not every Scouter needs to be a marathoner, but a leader should be setting the example by keeping himself in at least decent shape. Each year, I take the Tenderfoot fitness test with my Scouts to see how I am doing. Leaders should be doing the same thing each year so they are themselves fulfilling the Scout Oath.

[runintherain]

I was not a Scout as a kid, but I was a kid. Almost every year in Elementary School and Middle School I came in first in my grade on every event on the Presidential Physical Fitness. Except for pullups. I never did more than 2 until I was in my 20's. We are all made different and not every kid that cannot do pull ups is a couch potato. The real method for improving on pull ups is to lift weights. I do not believe that 11 year old boys should be lifting weights to the extent that it would take to improve on pull ups.

 

In youth sports, I see kids pushed beyond their limits all the time and every time I see a 13 year old with a torn meniscus or a 14 year old with a full rotator cuff tear I cringe. These injuries were unheard of when I was a youth. Of course, we were also outside playing all the time.

 

Our troop gives incremental credit on the pull ups. I even had a kid that did 2 to start and we gave him credit for 2 1/2 after 30 days. The scout did a 1:28 400 meter run at 10 years old. He did 30 push ups and looked like he could have done sit ups all day long. He improved from a 5'0 standing long jump to 5'6". I did ask him what he had done to practice pull ups and he said that he had gone to the school with his older brother and had him hold his ankles just like the book says. The point is that the kid was obviously fit and learned how to become more fit. So, we signed him off.

 

This is one advancement requirement where I think judgement should be strongly used.

 

 

[ImNotSerious]

I have some recent experience with this. I have always been a lanky guy, especially when I was a teen. These 40+ years had still not given me the ability to do pull-ups. I recently bought a pull-up bar and hung it over my computer room door. I made myself do pull-ups before entering, even if I just returning from getting a glass of water.

Well, Initially I couldn't do one, but I could if my arms were bent and I was using an underhand grip. If I couldnt do 5, then I made myself do pushups to enter. I can now do a full 10 pull-ups with an overhand grip.

 

Then I see this thread. Enter my scrawny 7yr old Tiger cub. I decided to do the same thing for him, but he is too short to try by himself so I help him get up. again we did underhand grip and only went down to 90 Degrees then back up. He couldnt do any pushups, so I used that as a payment if he wanted a soda, or computer time or whatever. he can now do 1 full pull-up off a chair, and 2 good pushups. Thats about 3 weeks.

 

I know my kids lead a very active inactive lifestyle. (school,daycare,homework,violin,dinner,bed) I think a minute or 2 a day of pushups/pull-ups done in a fun way is a good way of slipping in excercize for a boy. (he actually thinks it cool when he asks for a candybar in the checkout line and I say "Drop and give me 20")

 

I don't think boys need to work with external weights, but I do believe that they should be able to move their own weight. falling from pushup position is much safer than dropping a weight bar on the chest!

 

BTW, I dont think you can consider doing the 5 challenges as teaching the test. It may often be considered boring to have scheduled exercize, but making your body strong is making your body strong. teaching yourself the 10 questions on the Revolutionary War and not having an indepth understanding of the people and forces at work is teaching the test.

 

Mike

[BrentAllen]

Beavah wrote "Scoutin' can be "fun" much more of the time, but if yeh want lads to grow it also has to be hard. We have to push 'em a bit. Make that 5.9 climb. Do the mile swim at camp. Paddle a 50-miler afloat. Bike a century. Win da patrol obstacle course relay."

 

While I agree with the general thought, our boys working on Tenderfoot haven't had much opportunity to do these things. It has been my experience that the boys don't start developing the upper body strength to do pull-ups until 7th grade, on average. Here are some numbers for our Troop, initial test counts for Sit-ups (in 2 minutes), Push-Ups, Pull-ups. The first two are 6th graders in good shape, active in soccer:

A. 55, 10, 0

B. 40, 5, 0

 

Two of our 8th graders, run Cross-Country and swim:

C. 50, 10, 5

D. 61, 32, 9

 

I don't think we will see a lot of improvement in pull-ups until later, but there's no reason they can't start working on them as soon as they join.

[packsaddle]

ImNotSerious, I sympathize. I was also lanky and had a similar problem when I was a boy and my family started the Air Force calisthenics regime that we'd do together every evening. Our home had really thick trim over the doorways so we'd just grab that for pullups. At first it was a pain and then it was fun when my sister and I began 'lapping' the old folks. You are doing a good thing for your son and he will appreciate it, probably for the rest of his life (he'll probably never thank you or admit it or anything, though, LOL)

If this piece of titanium inside me ever stops hurting I may try the chinning bar thing again too.

[BrentAllen]

I noticed some of our Scouts were playing "Push-Up Poker" during the lunch break on our backpacking trip this weekend. Yep, they bet with push-ups, and the loser has to do the number he lost. I'd never heard of it until then. I have mixed feelings about gambling, but I do like to see them working in some physical excercise.

[packsaddle]

I think it's a great idea. It teaches about strategy, statistical probability, AND it pays in exercise all at the same time. Win, win, win.

[qwazse]

So I am hearing a few possible of strategies:

Sign off after the first 30 days if the boy makes a "good faith effort." Folks in this camp justify it bytaking it for granted that some boys just don't have it in 'em. (None of these folks said they'd require written agreement from a physician, the parent, and - most importantly - the boy.)counting 1/2 pull ups (guess that means recording the degrees flexed the first time)give jocks some slack because they aren't cleaver enough to scale it down on the first try

Follow the requirement to the letter:maybe interpret "show improvement in the activies" to not necessarily mean "each of" -- as long as the rest of the activities improved.Give the patrol some activities with physical challenge.Tell the kid to join wrestling and toughen up.Maybe after improving on everything else the 1st 30 days, help the kid do focused stuff the next 30 days.Set up a plan focusing on all the other T to FC requirements and let the boy know you'll hit that one hard when that's the last thing holding him back.Do the requirement yourself (yikes!!) so the boys have a role model.No slack for jocks. If they come down to 50 sit ups one month, they'll probably be back up to more than that the next!