To EDGE or not to EDGE

[qwazse]

MT: And teach[ing] becomes like others stated, maybe no more than the scout who is the teacher doing the skill while others watch.

 

And the problem with that is???? Well let me think about what could be wrong with a scout A just doing a skill while scout B watches

Scout B imitates. Skill is learned

Scout B says "what did you just do?" Scout A says "read the handbook". Scout B reads and learns.

Scout B says "why are you doing that?" Scout A says "read the handbook". Scout B reads and learns.

Knowing that he has a boy's attention, Scout A explains "I want to anchor these poles together to make a catapult to launch my water bottle into SM Kudu's tent 300 feet away, wanna help?" Scout B forgoes the handbook, probably doesn't learn as much, but can practice lashings until SM Kudu's nap is interruped by water bottles hitting his tent.

 

 

MT: You need to give reference to something where the adults know that the scouts need to have some form of guiding the other scout(s) until they are able to do it for themselves.

Give the scouts TIME and a Handbook. If it's a task that matters, if it requires the help of others, they will learn pretty quick the best way to teach it. (And it may or may not be EDGE.)

 

MT: And that they know what is expected in order to get signed off on the requirement. I bet SM Kudu will sign off something for those boys if they assemble a machine to deliver from 100 yards out!

[Beavah]

Yah, OK, you convinced me, Q.

 

Beat EDGE to death with scout staves.

 

The point of Scouting is doing things for fun. The learnin' comes with that.

 

B

 

[clemlaw]

----Give the scouts TIME and a Handbook.-----

 

What does TIME stand for?

[moosetracker]

I have come away from some of those poor teachings of just do it, with no advice on how to look it up to figure out what the teacher was trying to teach me, but didn't because he s--ked at it. Couldn't see what he was doing from two or 3 rows back and just frustrated. If that is how I react I can assure you most boys will react that way, because I will pick up a reference book & read. 90% of the boys don't..

 

Just doing with others are watching with an attitude of you don't care about those that are watching, or they are a bother and in your way, is not learning the skill of teaching.

 

Again I am not saying they have to use EDGE.. For all I care they could tell you to uses "Beavah's" CRAPPO style or any of the other styles mentioned.. Or give a list of 20 different teaching styles, and let you pick.. But yeah they should do something to indicate what they mean be teach, that it is not some crappy poorly organized do it like your students don't matter..

 

Use CRAPPO and don't be crappy..

[JMHawkins]

Since we ought to be preparing these boys for the corporate world some day, personally I think we should teach FRACK:

 

Fad

Recognition,

Avoidance and

Containment

Knowledge

 

EDGE seems like yet another Consultant-generated fad that, while not necessarily objectionable in itself, is indicative of a silver bullet, one-size-fits-all shortcut mindset. If the requirement was to use three different teaching techniques, one of which should be EDGE I would be happier with it. Expose the kids to a couple of ideas: theres more than one way to teach something, and that teaching is itself a skill with established techniques. But the way its set out, it seems like someone got their heart all a-pitter with an enacronymed fad and thinks its the only way to do it. Should we rewrite the Pioneering requirements to say do everything with square knots?

 

Seems like these sorts of fads run through every bureacracy. Leaders will need to wrestle with them frequently.

 

 

[Thomas54]

 

 

Put me in the group to trash can EDGE.

 

For all of the above reasons:

scouts don't learn this way,

it sounds like a two day course offered near an airport hotel

Its academic learning theory.

Its not even management or leadership doctrine.

 

Its a poor substitute for real leadership development which comes from time, experience and skill development.

 

The teaching of EDGE does not and will not accelerate the development of the youth. For many years we have sent scouts to NYLT to learn the EDGE teaching theory. Not one has brought this back and used it successfully.

 

EDGE can only be categorized a marketing program designed to convince BSA consumers that the program offers an accelerated fast-track method for leadership. That within BSA its not camping, the patrol method or the program itself that does the development but a Codified route memorization program called EDGE that pops out future CEO's and Congressmen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[qwazse]

Although I am strident about it not being a requirement for boys, the trainer's EDGE is not a bad tool for adults to have in the arsenal. If you have a boy who is having a hard time getting his message across to the patrol, pulling him aside and saying "Hey, I know you're having a hard time getting Scout B to tie lashings well enough for you to have a working trebuchet by the end of the week. Let me tell you a way to make sure you've covered everything that needs to be covered to help someone learn ..."

 

Also, a subtle point that my woodbadge instructor brought out, the steps don't necessarily procede in that order. Furthermore, the steps are more circular than linear, as sailingpj described. So, yes, I get MT's point that we all could be reminded of how to prepare before we speak!

 

But, I still want to convert you all to #1-ers, because

1) one could say the same for nearly any form of pedagogy, and

2) it does not explicitly include reference (in the Tenderfoot's context, the Handbook).

In other words, someone could use EDGE on you, and you'd still come away as MT put it with no advice on how to look it up to figure out what the teacher was trying to teach.

[sailingpj]

How about this, add Instruct, and Reference. That makes it EDGIER.

 

Explain/Excite (you need to get the student excited about what they are learning)

Demonstrate

Guide

Instruct

Enable/excite more

Reference

 

Then just say that these steps can be combined and rearranged to meet the needs of the student and teacher.

[sherminator505]

I would write the requirement as follows:

 

"Teach another Scout a Scout skill. Describe the method you used to teach the skill and tell how you know that the skill was learned."

[Beavah]

Yah, what sherm said! Though I'd move it to Star and Life and Eagle, rather than put it at Tenderfoot.

 

FRACK, I'm likin' the EDGIER acronyms though!

 

 

[packsaddle]

Gack! After mastering the military acronyms...now this. Come to think of it, this can't be worse than the military.

[NJCubScouter]

It's already part of the Life requirements (as of 1/1/10), with the EDGE part of course. I think so many people are focused on the new Tenderfoot requirement to teach the square knot (which, using EDGE, would be pretty much the same as teaching it using any other method, but I guess EDGE has become a bad "word" around here), some may be missing the major new teaching/EDGE requirement that was added for Life. As I said elsewhere, my main concern about this is an administrative one: Most of the kids currently going for Tenderfoot have the new handbook (12th ed.) with the current requirements in it, but most of the kids going for Life still have the 11th edition, so they have to find out about that requirement elsewhere. As far as how EDGEy the kids have to get when teaching others these skills, that's our Scoutmaster's issue, not mine. In BOR's I do not plan to ask about EDGE, just about what skill you taught to a younger Scout, how difficult it was, etc.