Transferring BACK after Eagle?

[Mike F]

We had a scout transfer to another area troop over a year ago. With many problems at home and in his past, this lad desperately needed Scouting. Unfortunately, his time with us was filled with problems with parents hateful emails, late night phone calls, angry public outbursts, and formal complaints to Council. Most of the problem centered on our advancement program.

 

Since leaving, the family has been vocal about son not liking the new troop, wants to have nothing to do with them, and has only been on one campout in a year and a half. The scout has come back to our troop to recruit help for his upcoming Eagle project.

 

Tonight his father came by our troop meeting to talk about their transfer back to our troop as soon as he finishes his Eagle in the other troop.

 

Wow that floored me.

 

What would YOU do?

 

[BartHumphries]

"Most of the problem centered on our advancement program." As in too much or not enough or something else? Perhaps they see how bad things can really be and realize that the grass was better back on the first side of the fence. You don't want to be mean and hold a grudge, but if they really didn't fit in before then will they fit in now? Have you asked them about why, if they were seemingly so unhappy then, they'd want to return? A good civil conversation often clears muddy waters.

[moosetracker]

So are these helicopter parents? Is the other troop the easier troop to get through advancement without really doing it the right way, but your the better troop in program and working with the scouts? Is this a scout who is trying to make eagle very young, like 13 or 14 without the real skills to be in this position? Is he coming to your troop to recruit help because few in the other troop will help him? How are the boys in your troop reacting to helping him with his project. Yes, we are a service organization, but I can tell you in our troop the turnout of boys to help an Eagle candidate does reflect on the eagle candidates past participation in the troop and his help on Eagle projects of other boys. It is the difference of showing up for one event for half a day and considering you did your duty, or showing up to 5 or 6 project dates and working the full day. They may get a rude awakening when the turn out is low from your troop to work the project.

 

I definitely would talk to the parents and the boy about what his plans are after he makes Eagle, and discuss if they had so much conflict with your troop in the past, why do they think it will be different now. If it is to just hang out and enjoy the program, then are parents going to back off so the scout can be a member of your program. If he is going for palms, let them know the way you run your program has not changed and you will expect true leadership with INCREASING responsibility based on his rank as Eagle and as he moves though palms. I forget what was said to my son when he went finished his 2nd palm and was going to start work on his 3rd palm, but they did expect some sort of increasing responsibility, from him, I just forget what it was. He ended up on merit badge short of getting that, but I do think he put in the extra effort in the leadership for the troop.

 

If he is not yet 16, I would not give him any special rank or privileges either (like JASM or being moved into the adult ranks. Unless the privileges) unless the privileges were already given to other young Eagles in your troop, but JASM does have an age requirement of 16-17. Let them know that up front before coming back.

 

Basically go over everything that was an issue with them in the past, and let them know things have not changed in the expectations of the boys in your troop, whether at Eagle rank or not. Then let them decide if maybe a 3rd troop may be better for them to try.

 

[shortridge]

I would talk to the Scout, away from his parents, and see what he wants to do. Lay the situation on the line. If he's going to be an Eagle, he's old enough and mature enough to understand the situation and your reluctance to welcome him with open arms. Then have a separate sit-down with both parents.

 

I know you probably didn't mean it this way, but I was struck by the construction of one of your sentences: "the family ... has only been on one campout in a year and a half." I hear those chopper blades whirring ...

[OldGreyEagle]

What lesson did you learn from the Prodigal Son?

[Eagle92]

We had a similar situation. We had a scout leave us, not b/c of problems but b/c he got involved with stuff in HS and knew he couldn't truly keep a POR for advancement with us due to the different schedules, so he transfers. It was an amicable split. And he left us as a First Class or Star Scout.

 

2.5 years later as a Life Scout, he switches back to us. His other troop was having challenges, being mostly adult led and not youth led, and the scheduling conflicts ended, so he could join us. While he didn't get elected SPL, he was appointed ASPL,a nd was part of our Leadership Corps. He was an asset as he did pick up a few things that were done differenly and helped us out. He did get Eagle and stayed with us a few months afterwards, until he left for college.

 

Talk to the Scout and see what he wants is a very good suggestion. Or if he Eagled, and is looking for more challenges, maybe a Venturing Crew or Sea Scotu Ship is what he needs. If he wants to give back to the troop that was his foundationin Scouting, by all means accept him.

[Mike F]

I appreciate your thoughts.

 

More info. There are two big issues.

 

1. Family was highly combative about any perceived issue with scout. One parent served on TC and drove off a number of other volunteers with harsh attitudes and outbursts. Actually seemed clinically psychotic at times. When parent quit TC in a rage and email barrage, continued to come to all troop meetings and stalk angrily around the parking lot spewing anger to any who would venture near. Over the course of time, I spent 40-50 hours on the phone and in the home of this family trying to calm them down and re-explain how the Scouting program works. We tolerated it while they were there, but all of the adults in our troop breathed a sigh of relief when they made the decision to transfer.

 

2. The number one reason they transferred: The parents made the decision because they were dissatisfied with his rate of advancement in the troop I serve and were adamant he must earn his Eagle before turing 16. We use the book elect/select program for PORs and expect increasing levels of responsibility as he climbs the ladder. This lad sought several positions, was trained, monitored, and coached, but refused to follow through and do anything, so he didn't get signed off and didn't get the rank credit - the first time - but we continued to work with him to help him understand and grow. Simply put, the family moved to another troop which they had heard was much more liberal in the way they run their advancement program. The family told me last night the boy hates the new troop, has only been on one campout in 17 months, and rarely participates in any other activities. It's hard for me to understand how it would be possible in this situation for him to have advanced from 1stClass to Eagle in that time without participation.

 

They want to come back because we run a dynamic, fun program. One parent told me flat out last night that now that he had his Eagle knocked out where he could get it done quicker, he wanted to come back to run our troop since he would be the highest ranking scout. "Nope - that's still not the way it works. Just like that wasn't the way it worked when your son was the highest ranking boy in his patrol and couldn't get elected to PL because the other boys all thought he was lazy." OK - I didn't say all of that.

 

I was glad to work with this scout when he was with us and endured a lot in the process, but that's what we do - put up with a lot of guff for the boys. Now I feel like I've lost a year and a half of working with him, yet he comes back with lesson that there's an easy way out.

 

Here we go again.

[Beavah]

Yah, da problem with havin' units with different thoughts about advancement is the transfers. The transfers never work.

 

I think yeh need to decide just a few things:

 

1) Is the core of the problem the parents, or the boy?

2) If the core of the problem is the parents, can yeh set up expectations up front that will keep the parents in check? If yeh do that, will the boy be OK, or will he cop "attitude" as well?

 

If yeh think the problem is the parents and yeh can keep 'em in check, then you might consider the boy's application. Even then, it's goin' to be hard, eh? The boys in your program are going to feel that he "cheated" in order to get Eagle, and aren't goin' to respect him for it. That's goin' to be hard on him, and hard on your program since your boys are going to feel cheated too. He got the prize without doin' all the work they have to do. Can the boy handle that? Can you?

 

So I'd say yeh accept his application only if all those stars align, eh? The problem is the parents, you can keep them in check, the boy will be a good member and you and he and your boys can weather the storm that his advancement creates.

 

Otherwise, just say "No." It's not worth the disruption it will cause your program. We often want to "stretch" for some boys, and that's a good thing, but not when it compromises the program for other boys.

 

Beavah

 

[perdidochas]

If he is an asset to the troop aside from the advancement issues, it seems like a perfect time to take him back. No more advancement issues, and he can contribute. I'd let him in on a probationary basis.

[kbandit]

I think what needs to to be answered if this is best for the scouts and adult leadership if this family returns? You not only welcome the scout back but also the parents. Sounds like a toxic mess waiting to happen. My two cents.

[Kudu]

A Frog and a Scorpion sat on the river bank and gazed across the swiftly moving waters.

 

"Would you be so kind as to give me a ride across the river?" asked the Scorpion.

 

"You're crazy!" answered the frog. "If I let you sit on my back you will sting me and we both will drown."

 

"Why would I sting you?" asked the scorpion. "It would not be in my best interest."

 

The scorpion's logic was sound and he seemed sincere, so the frog let him climb onto his back and he hopped into the water. Everything went well until they reached the middle of the river. Then without warning the scorpion stung the frog hard on the back, paralyzing him instantly. The two creatures began to sink.

 

"Why did you sting me?" the frog gasped, "Now we are both going to die."

 

"I don't know," the scorpion answered honestly. "It's just my nature!"

 

[Twocubdad]

Everyone else has asked some good questions which need to be answered, but on the surface, my inclination would be not to accept the scout.

 

You spent 40-50 hours dealing with the problems created by this family? (And I don't doubt it -- I've spent twice that much time with problem individuals.) While that may be part of the job, do you really want to buy in to a problem like that again? I bet if you thought about it, you could come up with a more productive use of 50 hours.

 

This family has maxed-out their account with the troop. Sounds to me like you gave them every opportunity the first time around. There is a good chance the boy has matured and won't be the problem he was before. I doubt seriously the parents have changed much. And how do you really divorce the Scout from his parents?

 

I think you're buying trouble.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Sounds like problems are in your future if you do accept them back. Easiest answer is to say "NO, thank-you" (always be polite!)

 

But if you did, even if he is close to 16 or 16, you don't have to give him JASM just because of his rank or his age. Let him earn the respect of his peers before he can get that position (if ever). And make sure if he ever does earn it he knows this does not make him king, he still reports to the ASM & SM.

 

If the parents think that precious will now run the troop, the fact that you are not rolling over and kissing their little angels Eagle toes, may make them rethink rejoining also.

[Stosh]

My first gut reaction would be to smile nicely and slowly back out of the room.

 

"Tonight his father came by our troop meeting to talk about THEIR transfer back to our troop as soon as HE finishes his Eagle in the other troop."

 

Sometimes the words say more than you think they do. When the transfer happens, I'm thinking the whole circus is returning. Then being a stand alone paragraph, we start out talking about the father stopping by, so I'm assuming the "HE finishes HIS Eagle" is referring to the father as well??????

 

I'm thinking this discussion is really moot. The boy only wants to get his Eagle. Sounds like he and his parents may have worn out their welcome over there or he wouldn't be back trying to recruit project help from a troop that a year ago wasn't necessary. It's too late in the game to take on a third troop, so troop #1 becomes a better target. Come back, toss out a little flattery about how good your troop is (well it sucked last year when we left.) This is nonsense. NOBODY out there is good enough for their little boy. I'm thinking this family spent the whole time in your troop bad mouthing your troop. Once they transferred and they didn't get the Camelot they thought they deserved, the bad mouthing got going again. And somehow you really think that coming back to your troop is going to rectify this????

 

A scout does not need to "recruit" Eagle project help from any troop. He can do his whole project with the assistance of his friends, the group he's doing the project for, other service organizations, etc. So schmoozing your troop by dangling the "I'll come back when I get my Eagle," isn't necessary and taking him back to reintroduce the hassles you had before is going to be a problem. If everyone gave a sigh of relief when they left, what damage are you going to do to them when the flood gates come back?

 

All I see is the writing on the wall. This scout has serious leadership and image problems but once he gets his Eagle he can come back and rest on that for a nice position of authority and running the show of the troop. Once that doesn't happen, he'll just quit and the problem will finally go away permanently but not without a fabulous swan song that will harm your troop in the process.

 

As a SM, I would politely decline to sign the transfer. It's not like you're keeping him out of scouting, he's already in a troop. As far as your boys helping him with his project, that would be great. If a scout is having difficulty, then roll up your sleeves and help other people at all times.

 

There comes a time when one has to decide, the fate of an individual over the fate of the group. There's a straw for every camel's back and by taking on one more scout too many, the whole program and all the good work for others would/could be destroyed by the antics of just one.

 

Just my 2-cents worth, your mileage may vary.

 

Stosh

[Horizon]

Accept the Scout. Deny the parents.

 

The boy could use the Troop. The Troop does not need the parents. Tell the parents that you welcome the Scout, but that their input is not needed and not necessary. You just want them to drop off the Scout, and pick him up on time.