To teach or not to teach....

[CA_Scouter]

Philosophical Question:

 

The October issue of Backpacker mag has a bunch of great teachable skills on outdoor survival, ie.. how to make do without a first aid kit, or no compass, or no cooking pots... a variety of things...

 

One of the pages ( p74 ) has several skills where a bottle of whiskey is used ( start a fire, treat iffy water, care for cuts, signal for help )...

 

Do you, or do you not, teach this skillset to a scout troop?

 

 

 

 

[acco40]

I think trying to "make do" without a first aid kit, compass, etc. isn't the message we want to make. Something about "Be Prepared" or something like that.

 

The "whiskey" issue is a non-issue. Having alcohol isn't a bad idea. It cleans, burns and medicates!

[dScouter15]

I would absolutely teach much of the variety of things. Though I might not phrase it as "making do" without a first aid kit/compass/etc. Instead, phrase as "another way to find direction" or "an alternate way to cook a meal," etc.

 

As far as the whiskey issue - if your scout's find themselves in a survival situation in which they are without a compass, first aid kit, etc: what are the chances they will have a bottle of whiskey in their possession? So, is there really a need to include it in your skills instruction? I haven't seen the article, but maybe its something that can be replaced with rubbing alcohol, hand sanitizer, medicated wipes, or something else more likely to be in close proximity to a scout?

[Scoutfish]

So they lost the first aid bag, but manage to hang on to the scout whiskey bag? LOL!

 

Short of being lost in the mountains and running into a moonshine still....I don't think spirits will be much concern.

 

 

But make do, in the sense that you have to make do with what you have left after losing alot of what you had to start with...Yeah, I'm cool with that.

 

Make do as in "Not spend money and used leaves for bandaids and vines for slings because I am cheap and lazy" ? No, not cool at all.

[shortridge]

Perhaps they were in a plane crash and didn't have a first-aid kit, but did have a bottle of Jack that miraculously survived in someone's well-padded carry-on. It could certainly happen. I wouldn't make it the focus of the lesson, but it still might be useful to mention.

 

I was really happy to see the endorsement of potato-chip firestarters, personally. That's really fun to demonstrate. Though I don't know ANYONE who's ever snuck a quarter-can of Pringles into their pack ...

[Scoutfish]

Hopefully, it will never come to this:

 

 

In firefighter school, I learned that potato chips are the choice of people who like to start fires (arson) without leaving a trail.

Completrely burns up..no residue that can be distinguished from the rest of the fire.

 

No, not usefull, but intersesting piece of trivia.

[Eagle92]

Ruffles are the best for starting fires, and I mean campfires.

[Basementdweller]

To not teach it is naive at best.

 

Reality is, most in the back country do carry a little libation.

[Bando]

Anybody else seen the first episode of LOST? Jack sews himself up after disinfecting the wound with an airplane mini-bottle of vodka.

 

Yes, it's TV, but not outside the realm of possibility in a disaster situation that a bottle of booze could come in handy. Although one would have to choose for which "good" you'd want to use it.

[sawdustr]

I was taught that we used information provided in the BS handbook, field book, or merit badge booklets as our resources when we instructed scouts. This ensured that the scouts had references for future consultation that was consistent with BSA "guidelines".

[boomerscout]

teach it. Once a year, more or less, we take our older, more experienced Scouts on a SERE campout. They are allowed only the stuff they commonly would have in their pockets (as long as that includes a sharp multi-function pocket knife). They are allowed to use whatever man-made objects they may find while out in the woods or field. Sort of like a Les Stroud experience

Of course, there is no enemy to evade or resist. We do cheat by only doing this in summer

Philmont used to do something like this in the early 1950s.

[shortridge]

sawdustr:

 

If we were indeed only allowed to teach what was in official BSA publications, then hundreds of advanced skills would never be taught. Just as one example: Forget the bow drill (fire by friction) and magnifying-glass methods of firestating (dismissed in the Wilderness Survival MBP as "legendary but not always practical").

 

Indeed, BSA acknowledges that its publications aren't the be-all, end-all of wilderness education. Each MPB contains a list of resources, groups and other publications in the back for additional information, and the Venturing Ranger Handbook is chock-full of other resources. Indeed, the Ranger program itself is based not around a single handbook, but the idea of learning from specialty expert consultants - who probably aren't teaching from the BSH or Fieldbook.

 

I don't ever recall seeing the "one-handed bowline" included in any BSA book, but it sure was taught at my troop and camp.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Pritch]

I believe that you train and encourage behavior you want repeated. As such, I keep "novelty" firestarting techniques in context. THey are included because they are interesting and fun, not necessarily because I want my scouts packing steel wool, rocket motors, or reactive chemicals in their fire kits.

 

While it is important to instill in scouts the ability to "adapt, improvise & overcome," I think teaching a technique relying on a prohibited substance is just asking for trouble. While "knowledge takes up less space than gear" is commonly bandied about, the fact is, students only retain a fraction of material presented. Providing a justification for bringing a flask of hooch (scout translation) might knock out that great material you presented on understanding the fire triangle.

 

"Ya know, properly dried pot makes a great tinder bundle for use with your bow drill. . ."

 

I'll seek out the article as it sounds interesting and I'm always interested in expanding my bush knowledge. Nevertheless, Some material just isn't appropriate for young boys.

[sawdustr]

Shortridge:

 

You are correct - my post dealt with how to teach the skills as represented in the BSA literature. Based on the true nature of this topic, I agree that we aren't limited to additional resources to provide more adventure.

 

I do believe that we should make sure the scouts we are instructing have the fundamentals covered before we start going over and beyond the BSA literature (new scouts vs. Star and above).

[boomerscout]

"Providing a justification for bringing a flask of hooch"

 

Some of the techniques mentioned in the magazine article used an empty bottle. It could be "found" while on a hike. It could then be mentioned in passing that the contents have uses other than drinking, and that alcohol should not be used to treat snakebite or to try and keep warm.

Some may want to adapt the article by using an old, found glass canning jar