Who cares? Do you?

[Scoutfish]

I think it's funny when I put any real thought into it. So the LDS church doesn't do things exactly the way we think they should.

 

Or at the very least..we actually aren't sure how they do most of their stuff, but we ARE sure we won't like it!

 

So what? Who cares? Do you really care about teh why's what if's or how comes?

 

 

I see it like this: I am personally friends with people who are ( in no ranking order) Jehovah's witnesses, Jewish, gay and lesbian, athiests, a self proclaimed Bhuddist, a few atrophists( just too lazy and self centered to be anything )and suych.

 

So? Well that's just exactly it! SO what! These people have plenty of different views, beliefs, lifestyles and rites that are so way completely different than mine.

 

But they don't make me do anything different from what I want of believe.

 

I am personally affected more so by personal preference than religion: taking shoes off in a house, no smoking, children being seen but not heard, pets vs no pets, style of music, air freshener, taste in art, etc...

 

I have known a family from Pa for many years. They moved here in Nc back in the mid 80's.

 

First time I went to their house, I was asked: " Would yens like a pop?"

 

I had no idea what she asked me!

 

In a few minutes, I found out she wanted to know if I wanted a soda.

 

My Jehovah friend will accept profit sharing at the end of the year, but not the Christmas bonus I get. But either way, he still gets the $$$.

 

 

So the LDS doesn't do this or that. They do this...but differently than we do.

 

So what?

 

My neighbor eats fish for Christmas while I eat turkey. But we both put on jackets when it's cold outside.

 

I like to take my showers at night... after I have worked all day long geting hot, sweaty and dirty. My wife takes showers in the morning before going to her job working around people. My son ( if he had his way) would only take 3 showers a year.

 

I drink Mountain Dew, my wife drinks sweet tea. Mt son hates any form of carbonated soda .

 

So what?

 

My point is...other than being just plain nosey and possibly control freaks, why do you care what a troop that you are not a part of does? It doesn't change your troop or what you do.

 

 

When is your B&G? When is your crossover? Where do you camp and when camping, what is your menu?

 

What is your fundraiser?

 

What day of the week are your meetings? Day or night? Inside or out?

 

If it's different from mine, is it wrong or is mine wrong?

 

 

And maybe that's why there are so many claims of the LDS not hanging out with us: Would you want to if everything you did was chastized fopr not being the "right:" way of doing it?

 

All I am saying is this: They tok a program, tweaked it a little bit so that it works for them and their beliefs.

 

WE do the same thing amongst ourselves wether it be when and where you camp, you EBOR's, how you select leadership, what your policies are and what way you raise money.

 

Lets don't be the pot calling the kettle black.

[packsaddle]

I vote for Sun Drop Golden Cola. "Refreshing as a cup of coffee"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/GoldenCola.jpg

 

More caffeine than Dew ("It'll tickle yore innards"), better flavor than Vault.

[Eamonn]

I spent part of this week attending a symposium hosted by the PA.Department of Corrections.

A few of us were talking about the lingo that is used by both inmates and staff.

Right now two of the catch phrases that seem to be used a lot are "It is what it is!" And "How's that working for you?"

We, here in this forum, in the past spent a lot of time dwelling on tweaks and the tweakers.

Like a lot of topics we look at, it seemed to me that we fall into two groups.

One group seen any sort of "Tweak" as being just plain wrong.

The other seemed OK making the changes that they thought made things work better.

Group one seemed to look at what came from "The BSA" being the holy word from on high.

Group two seemed to think that what they were changing was in the best interest of the youth and people we serve.

For me?

I see it as a Values Thing.

I'm happy to think that I joined this organization and am willing to go along with the program and stuff that is dished out.

My hope is that I'm flexible enough not to look down my nose at people who maybe do things differently that I might.

At the same time I do kinda fear that if we over do the tweaks, that it will become impossible to see what we were supposed to be trying to do in the first place.

So I do care, but am not going to lose any sleep because we don't all do things the same way.

Ea.

[Scoutfish]

Well, if each unit wants to tweak a tiny thing in THEIR program for thie own use. I'm cool with it.

 

It's not the same as if they demanded that we all change and use their tweak.

 

I'd bet my paycheck that every single pack, troop, crew or whatnot DOES use more than 3 tweaks...even if they are not consciously aware they made those tweaks.

[Gary_Miller]

Because I do care about all the misguided/uniformed/and false information which abounds on this site and others about the Boy Scout program that "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints"(LDS) uses.

 

Let just get something straight.

 

The BSA program that the LDS church uses is the same one that every other unit uses. Its the one that BSA prescribes should be used.

 

There is not now or has there ever been "tweaks" that have not been in accordance with BSA policy on how a chartered organization is to/can use the program.

 

[resqman]

I don't know know how or what other units are doing regardless of their affilation or sponsor. I am concerned about my unit. Are we presenting the program the best we can for our lads?

 

There are a number of ways we could change the way the program is run in my unit. For the most part I am happy with the way the program is run. I would like to see more involvement by the older scouts. I would like the boys to be more involved in annual planning. Don't know how or why the LDS units may do it differently. Oh well.

[Gary_Miller]

resqman, "Are we presenting the program the best we can for our lads?"

 

Your not if your not trained, Don't attend round tables, Don't attend Scouting University, Don't train your youth leaders, and Don't make sure PLC meetings are being held.

 

resqman, "I would like to see more involvement by the older scouts."

 

Hold a SMC with each of the older boys you would like to see more involved. Find out what they see needs improved, and let them know what you would like to see from them. Send them to NYLT then allow them to use their new leader skills. Help them become involved in the OA.

 

resqman,"I would like the boys to be more involved in annual planning."

 

Make it their responsability. Hold a annual planning confence on a weekend. Let them know you will back their dicissions and fight for them with the Troop Committee. Let them know nothing happens if they don't make it happen. Then sit your chair in the back of the meeting room and watch the magic happen.

 

resqman, "Don't know how or why the LDS units may do it differently."

 

The only difference is the way the LDS units move their young men from program to program at a certain age. Other than that the program is the same.

[Oak Tree]

In general I don't really care how other units use the program, be they tweaks outside the program or tweaks within the program or even tweaks to the program.

 

It is consistently impressive to me how many people here get so upset about the way other units are running.

 

I do like to hear about how other units work so that I can if there's anything useful I can pick up.

 

I'm never happy to hear about really crazy unjust application of various rules or opinions.

 

In my troop's day to day life, I don't think it really matters. It does have some little effect in how it affects my troop - maybe in terms of setting expectations for Eagle, or when a whole bunch of Scouts disappear from the camporee because they don't camp on Sunday.

 

One effect that I do care about is in terms of national policy setting - when the LDS church decides that all of BSA should do something, that can affect me. And for the most part, I don't even care about that - all of the different constituencies are free to voice their own opinion.

 

I would prefer not to have this obvious split between LDS units and non-LDS units. But hey, I'd prefer a great many things and I can't get worked up over this.

[Gary_Miller]

Oak Tree,"It does have some little effect in how it affects my troop - maybe in terms of setting expectations for Eagle,"

 

Not sure what you mean here. The expectations set for Eagle are spelled out in the BSA literature all scouts must fulfill the requirements as set forth by the National BSA Committee. Local units can not add or take away from the requirements.

 

Oak Tree, "or when a whole bunch of Scouts disappear from the camporee because they don't camp on Sunday."

 

Every CO has the right to set standards on whats best for their units. The LDS Church has determined that it best for their Young Men to be back in their home units fulfilling their obligations to their God on Sunday. Its how they have determined the best way to live the Scout Law and oath. You know the part about "Duty to God" and "A Scout is reverent.".

 

To my knowledge no one in the church as ever set a requirement that the camporees be tailored to the LDS units specifically. The COR who sit on the district committee makes those decisions.

 

 

Oak Tree, "One effect that I do care about is in terms of national policy setting - when the LDS church decides that all of BSA should do something, that can affect me."

 

The LDS Church does not decide that all of BSA should do something. BSA National Committee make those decisions, the LDS church being one of the sponsoring organizations of BSA is only one voice/vote on the committee.

 

Oak Tree, "And for the most part, I don't even care about that - all of the different constituencies are free to voice their own opinion."

 

Yep and they all have a vote.

 

Oak Tree,"I would prefer not to have this obvious split between LDS units and non-LDS units. But hey, I'd prefer a great many things and I can't get worked up over this."

 

I also prefer to not have this obvious split, and its up to us all to work at not allowing it to be apart of BSA programs. It starts at the district level and everyone realizing that we have the same goal in mind. That of building boys into good men.

 

A wise person (I don't know who it was) once said "Its easier to build a boy into a man than it is to repair an man." or something like that.

[gcnphkr]

Scoutfish: "So what? Who cares? Do you really care about teh why's what if's or how comes?"

 

As long as it doesn't effect others it wouldn't matter and I wouldn't care. But I don't think that is the case. Despite Gary_Miller's protests that it is the same program, spend some time in District Eagle Boards of Review and it becomes very obvious that they are not the same. Spend a week at camp with a number of LDS units and it is clear they are different programs. Are there good LDS units and fine LDS scouts? Certainly. But there are too many that are not and their behavior effects the reputation of all scouts.

 

The LDS has a disproportionate amount of authority within Scouting in comparison to the number of scouts that they have. This is simply because their units are so small, very often at the minimum. Yet that ward will have 4 votes on District and Council elections (Pack, Troop, Team and Crew) with less scouts than you will find in many non-LDS units with a single vote.

[Engineer61]

Personally, I see two issues with the LDS participation in BSA.

 

One, certainly is the disproportionate influence that the LDS has in certain geographic regions.

 

The second, and to me the most important and most damaging to the LDS troops and BSA in general, is the level of participation that LDS troops have with non-LDS troops. As I mentioned in another post...our troop will participate on Eagle projects, regardless of the affliations, but no LDS scout will show up at non-LDS Eagle projects.

 

I have many LDS friends and coworkers, some don't endorse this segregation, but many do.

[evmori]

" Would yens like a pop?"

 

I'll bet they is from Pittsburgh & at.

[Frank17]

Here is a map to settle the controversy, once and for all:

 

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

 

 

BTW, Pittsburgh, PA is squarely in the 80-100% pop category!(This message has been edited by frank17)

[packsaddle]

Frank17, I sincerely hope that tax dollars didn't pay for that.

[Frank17]

Nope, but it probably was somebody's grad school project, since it came from the University of Oklahoma.