How deeply do you vet new leaders?

[AnaMaria]

Not new to Scouting, but new to this issue. I'm committee chair for a pack this year. Just finished up recruiting and orientation and working on plugging people in to help. If people listed references, do you check them? We'll be passing on the guy who indicates he uses illegal drugs and has a suspended license, but I'm not sure what to do with everyone else. I'm particularly interested in what you do with new adults not really known by anyone currently in leadership.

[TenBears]

>>We'll be passing on the guy who indicates he uses illegal drugs and has a suspended license...

[AnaMaria]

Yes, he did. I initially missed the suspended license due to the fascination that he admitted illegal drug use! All new parents filled out applications at sign up whether they thought they wanted to be registered leaders or not. Maybe he has not interest anyway.

[NJCubScouter]

I'm particularly interested in what you do with new adults not really known by anyone currently in leadership.

 

I think the last part of the sentence is the key here. We really have not had this issue in the troop or pack I have been involved in, because all new applicants have been parents of the boys in the unit. In the troop, that means they are generally known by other parents in the troop through Cub Scouting, and in the pack, it meant they were almost always known through school, PTO, etc. I realize that might not always work in every unit. If someone is NOT a parent of someone in the unit, or otherwise known to leadership, I would definitely check both the references on their application. In those situations where the applicant IS the parent of someone in the unit, but for some reason not known at all to the other parents (such as someone who just moved in), I would check the references.

 

The part about the illegal drugs is amusing because in this forum we have had some past discussions about what to do about an applicant who had a drug arrest many years ago but claims to be "clean" and the references check out... in other words a situation of a FORMER (and long-ago) drug-user. If someone says on their application that they are CURRENTLY using illegal drugs, that seems pretty easy, and I'd probably miss the part about their driving record too!(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[NJCubScouter]

Just noticed this part:

 

All new parents filled out applications at sign up whether they thought they wanted to be registered leaders or not.

 

Wow, how do you get them to do THAT? Free cake?

[AnaMaria]

I'm not sure about the applications, that was the Cubmaster's doing. But we also did YPT for all the adults at orientation (26 of them!). We didn't announce the YPT ahead of time, just sent them off to do it while the boys played a game. I didn't hear any grumbling. I'm not sure what we'll do next year because only the new people will need it then.

[dScouter15]

If I understand things correctly, the committee chair, chartered organization and council all share responsibility for approving unit-level leaders. I've always kind of assumed that background checks and checking of references were mainly the prerogative of the council, rather than the unit. While I'm sure you'd be within your rights to check a person's references, the information you gather might not be particularly helpful. For example, people who are effective in their day jobs, or who are popular with their friends, may not make good Scouters and role models. My suggestion on how to best handle these situations would be to welcome all new leaders, but not put them in any "mission critical" roles - give them small jobs and see how they do. When they're working around the kids, keep them well-supervised. After a few months, you should have a good idea of their strengths and weaknesses, and can opt to move them into more important positions.

 

I'm personally not really a fan of turning away any willing leaders without SERIOUS cause - eg, severe youth protection violation, repeated displays of poor judgement or behavior, etc. I certainly would not base my decision to turn away a leader solely on references. I guess my bottom line is, trust, but verify.

 

As far as the guy who stated that he's using illegal drugs... That's so outrageous I'd have to seriously question whether or not the individual made an error in filling out the form (misread the question or something). Maybe just double-check that somehow. (Or, maybe he was just under the influence of said drugs while filling out the form ;-) ).

 

Edited: I noticed that you said that parents were asked to register regardless of whether they want to be leaders or not. In light of my advice above, I'd add that if you can recruit qualified leaders, even if it takes some persuasion, that's great. But, if a particular adult truly does not want to be a leader, and for some reason was led to fill out an app anyway, I'd encourage you to just drop the issue. Destroy the application, don't check references, don't contact the council, don't do anything, don't worry about it. You're only opening yourself up to a bunch of hassle if you pursue all of this for adults who never even want to be a leader in the first place.(This message has been edited by dScouter15)

[ScoutNut]

If your CM was telling every adult at Roundup that they needed to fill in an Adult Application, then I am pretty sure that the one guy who said he had a suspended license, and did illegal drugs, was simply doing his best to make sure his application for membership was NOT accepted.

 

The references are there for a reason. Yes, we check them. It is the Charter Organizations job, thru the COR, and you, the CC, to find the best possible leaders for the CO's BSA unit. These people will possibly be leading YOUR son. If you are not going to check them out before recommending that the CO and your council accept their membership application, why not just pull in a total stranger off the street?

 

Unless you need volunteers immediately, I would suggest you get to know the new people somewhat first. That will make it easier to find them jobs they will enjoy and do well.

 

What kind of YPT did you do for the adults? Did you facilitate the Cub Scout Leader Youth Protection Training using the DVD and training quiz? If so, do you give the participants trained cards and report their training to your council? Or are you doing the "It Happened To Me" video?

 

[AnaMaria]

We had a district training volunteer come and do YPT. I believe he had a DVD of the online presentation. He brought a sign-up sheet. We kept a copy and he took one for the council. The participants didn't get anything to keep, but I imagine we could get that if someone needed it.

 

We had the adults fill out apps, but aren't going to turn them in unless the individual is going to hold a position that requires registration. I'm not sure what the Cubmaster had in mind, but I intend to destroy any we don't need in a few weeks, when things are set for the year.

 

We only have a couple of spots that need to be filled, so we're not looking at a major issue. Since it's a new thing for me, I wanted to hear how others do things.

[infoscouter]

It is the unit commitee's responsibility to check the references, not the council. From the instructions in the adult application:

"Unit Scouters

1. Complete and sign the top copy. Keep the back copy (applicant copy) and give the remaining copies to the committee

chairman with the proper fees.

2. After the application has been reviewed and, if necessary, references checked by the unit committee, secure the approvals.

The process set forth in the publication Selecting Quality Leaders, No. 522-981, must be completed for all positions of Scoutmaster, assistant Scoutmaster, Varsity Coach, and assistant Varsity Coach.

3. The committee chairman keeps the unit copy, gives one copy to the chartered organization, and forwards the remaining copy to the local council service center for approval and processing."

 

So, we check all references and run our own criminal background check with the state - its faster than the one the council runs.

[shortridge]

infoscouter,

 

This is not meant to be critical, but simply an observation.

 

If your local unit runs its own criminal background checks, you probably should be getting an additional signed release form from each of your applicants. The adult application form only authorizes the Boy Scouts of America and its contractor, ChoicePoint, a consumer reporting agency, to do those checks.

 

Unless the unit committee/CO has explicit permission from the council - which is the legal representative of the BSA - to do those checks, you might find yourselves in a spot of legal kerfluffle. The CO is a separate organization, and by signing the adult application form, the applicant has not authorized anyone else to perform a background check.

 

There's a very excellent reason for that. The background checks performed by council are held at council, by professional staffers, and the detailed information generally goes no further. Doing a local check increases the likelihood that something unsavory will "leak out" among the volunteers and a person's reputation damaged.

 

Another issue deals with confidentiality of social security numbers. The adult application clearly blacks out that number on the unit and CO copies of the form - it's not for their use. If your unit is simply copying the SSN off the council copy for purposes of performing a background check, that's flatly wrong. You're not meant to have that information.

 

I'm not a lawyer, but such a practice strikes me as odd, unless you're getting explicit separate permission. It might be better simply to rely on the council's process. It's there for a reason - it works, and it's confidential.

 

On the other hand, if you simply have a volunteer go to the county courthouse and search for criminal charges in the local jurisdiction, that's a clear matter of public record and anyone can do that - no foul. But that's not a complete criminal background check, and you shouldn't be relying on those results to make decisions.

 

Any lawyers around for a different perspective? Am I totally off-base with these concerns?

[Pack212Scouter]

I'm hoping that they probably do like our CO. Our CO requires a seperate background check form. Not too worried about the legal side with them as they probably process as many annually as the local Council

[Chug]

Here in the UK the Scout Association does a thorough Criminal Records Bureau check on all prospective new adult leaders, also local districts hold warrant committee's to question the applicant on their reasons for wanting to join.

[Eagle92]

I know that some COs are requiring a separate background check AND their own version of YPT. One Catholic diocese I was in was in the process of requiring this for all scout leaders to take the diocesan youth protection. When I was with the troop, scouters HAD to have BSA's YPT or the IH would not approve.That's when I found out how good the SCOUTNET records are the first go around b/c my YPT, which I took 2 or 3 months earlier was not listed. Just after I left that troop, the diocesan version was created and required in addition to BSA's YPT.

[beardad]

My Pack is going to start requiring an application and background check for each parent with kids in the pack. Our COR stated this is the new national policy.

 

I responded with "oh really? can you show me in writing?" which she couldn't because it doesnt exsist. I explained to her that only registered leaders should be filling out apps. Her way to get around that is since we are a no drop off pack, every parent is a registered leader. fair enough. just don't say it's a national policy.

 

I think we will lose a few kids, due to parents not being able to pass a background check. she basically said that we didn't need those kind of people around. again what kind of people? kids?

 

she is the best COR I have ever seen and fights voraciously for our pack. but I think she is getting burned out and this will be her last year.