Membership Question

[RedFlyer]

We are going on a "venture patrol" outing to the Grand Canyon early next year. All of our older boys who are interested have signed up. One of my older boys has a friend who is not part of the troop, but who really would like to go. He's willing to sign up for scouts to go, but this would be his only scouting activity as he's nearly 17. Personally, I don't have an issue with this, scouting is for the boys and if is this boy's only experience with it, so be it. However, my assistant Scoutmaster has brought up the point that, from an ethical standpoint, it doesn't feel right because the boy is basically signing up to be on the BSA's insurance. I would appreciate any opinions.

[perdidochas]

I don't see the ethical dilemna.

[Eagle92]

try it, you may be surprised. While a 17YO Boy Scout may not have much longer in the program, a 17yo Venturer does. You may help him spak an interest and get him involved with a local crew or ship.

[VigilEagle04]

There is much truth in Eagle92's post.

[Lisabob]

Go for it. As long as the only requirement to be in the venture patrol (which is part of a troop) is that the boy is a registered troop member above a certain age, and as long as the boy meets those requirements, then there's no problem. Keep in mind that the venture patrol might have some mandatory shake downs or training trips that all participants might need to attend between now and the actual trip, and if so, the boy would have to be willing to do so for his own sake and the sake of the group.

 

If, on the other hand, all of your venture patrol members need to be 1st class or higher or have camped x number of nights, or something like that, then the boy would also have to meet those requirements in order for this to be fair. But hey, a boy could get to 1st class pretty quickly if he wanted to do it badly enough, and "early next year" is far enough way to make it happen.

[rdclements]

I don't see a problem with it.

Sometimes Venturing Crews form in order to do a single outing. The crew plans to disband when the outing is over. Sometimes they decide to stay together.

[Stosh]

Sign him up! Once the customer's through the door, half the sales pitch is done! Venturing is an excellent idea see how the gentleman is interested in the high adventure. Who knows, you might be doing this man a great service.

 

Don't worry about the insurance. That's what it is there for!!!! It's kinda like flight insurance. You don't need to be a frequent flier to get the stuff!

 

Stosh

[RedFlyer]

I appreciate all of the replies. In general, they echoed my own thinking. I just need a little confirmation.

 

-Jonathan

[RedFlyer]

"needed"

[NJCubScouter]

I agree with everyone, but I think Lisa raises a good point, or two. Is there a rank requirement for the Venture Patrol? Even if there isn't, what I would want to do in this case is make sure that the young man has some background and experience in hiking and camping, and some knowledge of first aid, map and compass etc. consistent with the difficulty level of this particular trip. And also that he knows how to pack, how to dress for the weather, etc. In other words, do his outdoor skills prepare him for the trip, or can he pick up what he needs to know before the trip? If the answer to one of those questions is yes, and even if there is a rank requirement, I might be inclined to waive it. The real question would be, is he ready? If he is, then I don't think its necessarily relevant that he hasn't passed the Tenderfoot physical exercises, the First Class citizenship requirement, and that sort of thing. It would be nice, before he goes on the trip, if he would pass the Scout badge requirements, so at least he has some idea of what this Boy Scouting thing is all about.

[emb021]

"Is there a rank requirement for the Venture Patrol?"

 

The only National requirement is being atleast 13. Any rank requirement would be set by the local unit.

 

 

[NC Scouter]

What do the other scouts think about this fellow joining them? If they feel as a group that the trip is something they have "earned" they may not like the friend joining. Then again they may not care. Either way this is a teaching opportunity in practical citizenship. Initiate a discussion among the scouts.

 

That said, I see no other reason to deny him the opportunity so long as the other scouts are okay with the friend going, and so long as he won't otherwise be disruptive to the group. If he joins now the scouts and the adults will have several months to get to know him better and to observe how well he exhibits Scout Spirit.

 

Our role is to give boys opportunities, not deny them.

[Jeffrey H]

Sounds great and I agree with the previous posts. It's enjoyable to see an older boy take an interest in the Scout program. Good luck and best wishes.

[Twocubdad]

On the other hand.....

 

While I agree it is doable, I have reservations along the lines of LisaBob and NJCS. This isn't a situation where a friend wants to go on a nearby car campout to see how he likes the troop. I would also expect the young man to join the troop NOW and be active between now and the trip. The troop is making a fairly large commitment to him, he needs to make a commitment to the troop.

 

I would want to have some meetings with the boy AND his parents. Before taking someone else's kid 2,500 miles away on a trip, I want to get to know both the boy and his parents. We need some common expectations.

 

I assume this will be considered a high adventure trip, that you're not staying in hotels or RV parks. One reason for having age and rank requirements for Venture patrols is to know the Scouts can handle themselves in the woods and has the appropriate skill level for the trip.

 

I doubt this is your intent, but if a boy ONLY wants to go on the Grand Canyon trip and nothing else, I would question his participation. I'm not running a guide service. Scouting is more than an outdoor club. If he just wants to go on the trip, there are all sorts of commercial tours he can go on. I hear what the rest of you are saying about this being the trip which sparks the fellow's interest in a Venture Crew, but taking a kid to the Grand Canyon is a pretty high-end recruiting tool.

[frank10]

RF: you need to be careful here with this one, sure, he seems OK but next thing you know he'll be telling his 16 year old friends and they'll want to join too and when the younger kids see them camping and having fun your programs gets crowded. Suddenly you adding patrols...

 

Oh wait never mind let him join.