A cancer in the troop?

[Lisabob]

I can imagine two scenarios in which an adult like the one you are describing could operate.

 

1. In a troop that is more or less "boy led" a parent like this could be pushing things (like a gazillion MBs) for his son with occasional spill over effects into the rest of the troop (like inappropriately signing off the SM conference, announcing programs rather than asking the boys about them, etc).

2. In a troop where adults make all the real decisions, this dad might be one of many adults who routinely step on the boys' opportunities to do anything for themselves.

 

If it is the first situation and neither your SM nor your Committee Chair intend to put their feet down, man that is annoying. But it can be dealt with (by those in no positions of authority) by ignoring a lot of this behavior that really only impacts his son (like the gazillion MBs every month), and making sure that the people in charge of BORs all know that this parent has already been told to stop signing off on his kid's SM Conferences, etc. Paying a lot of "never mind" to the guy is probably the best strategy there.

 

If it is the second situation and there aren't clear signs of improvement, then yes, I would consider looking for another troop, even if not for right this minute. Just get to know other options in your area. I didn't pick up your son's age but I'm guessing he's on the younger end of things. My experience is that adult-led actually can work out ok for many 11-12-13 year olds and if he has friends, is happy, is getting a reasonably active outdoor program, and does not WANT to move at all, you may also need to bite down on your tongue and deal with it. (Maybe this means a self-demotion to "just a parent" status if you really can't suffer quietly - being the lone opposing committee member is just fruitless and raises stress levels to no good end, even when you're right about things).

 

But somewhere in their mid-teens, adult-led begins to really chafe on many boys and they start to challenge things - or they quit. And the adults doing the leading tend not to take challenges from youth too well. So even if you stay put for now, having a friendly relationship with other troops and SMs in the area might help your son make a move later on if it becomes necessary. One good way to do this: go to your district round table on a regular basis. Don't say anything much about your son's troop - round table won't "fix" it anyway - just build a network of local scouters. And if it ends up that your son's troop does make strides toward boy-led and your son continues to thrive there, well it is still nice to have a network of scouter friends in the area.

 

Edited to add: I'm not from the school of "merit badges for all" or "the more, the better" but still, I notice that several of the MBs on the list you shared really are very easy to complete. Reading, pet care, gardening, could all be done in relatively little time and by doing (mostly) things the boy might be doing in the summer anyway. Is it possible that in at least some cases, this parent (though over-involved, I agree) is simply helping his boy notice the overlap between what he's already doing, and what he can earn a badge for doing?(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[Jeffrey H]

This sounds like a badly run Cub Scout Pack. The current leadership does not even deserve to wear blue shoulder loops.

 

Why in the heck would anyone want to go for all available merit badges? I know it's been done by a few scouts, but a boy that is focused on nothing but merit badges is not the Scouting way. When I see Scouts that have earned 100+ merit badges, I'm always suspicious of the manner by which they were earned. Assuming there is about 120 MB's, he would have to average 17 per year. Scouting is fun and earning MB's is rewarding (if actually earned), but let's not abuse it and take it beyond it's intended purpose. Boy Scouts is not "Do Your Best", it's complete the requirements as written and be "Be Prepared" for it.

 

Should you stay with the Troop? Go ahead and stay with the Troop and show them the right way to earn MB's.

[evry]

It is sad! I sat on this Scout's BOR for Star yesterday (4 months + 2 days from his 1st Class BOR). There's no doubt...the boy is very bright and very capable, but has very little confidence. BTW, he just turned 12!

 

I asked him which has been his favority activity that he has done since he joined the troop? His answer was a canoe trip that he took on 8/14 and on which he was on the canoe with his dad. Then, he also added that he enjoyed a Merit Badge Clinic that he attended this last weekend. I asked him what he enjoyed about the MB Clinic and he says: "It was fun to learn new things. I was with XXXXX.....(pause)...no he wasn't there....(pause)...anyway, there were two other Scouts from the troop there too!" He couldn't even remember the names of the Scouts....they had been at summer camp with him for a whole week!

 

It just seemed that his whole scouting experience (so far) is a big blur! He has attended summer camp, at least 5 campouts, several hiking trips and yet, the activities that he most enjoyed were the ones that were more recent in his mind!

 

For his POR, he has been PL (in title only) and Bugler. I noticed that his dad had written in his handbook....PL, Bugler, Librarian, Scribe.

 

Asked what he has accomplished as PL...he says: "There were some things that were hard and some things that were easy."

Question: What did you find was hard to do?

Answer: "It was hard to get the others to attend the meetings." Question: What did you do to try to get them to attend?

Answer: "I sent them ...(long pause and stare)...next time I'm the Patrol Leader I will call the others and remind them to come to the meetings."

 

I hope that this is not common...it is sad when you see a child being pressured by his parent to the point of not having a childhood and losing his freedom to develop his own personality.

[RememberSchiff]

Well, did the BOR (you?) tell this scout that he is not ready or did he get the rubberstamp so the problem can grow?

 

[shortridge]

"It just seemed that his whole scouting experience (so far) is a big blur! He has attended summer camp, at least 5 campouts, several hiking trips and yet, the activities that he most enjoyed were the ones that were more recent in his mind!"

 

That's not at all uncommon with kids of that age, especially if they're lower on the maturity scale. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

I would caution you not to transfer your disagreements with the father's approach onto the son. At age 12, he certainly doesn't know any better if what's being modeled for him is flawed.

[Gary_Miller]

evry, "The troop is not affiliated with any church etc. The Chartering Org is a non-profit set up by the older leaders in the troop (old guard) in order to sponsor the troop. (convenient..eh?)"

 

Usually when these groups get started it because they did not like how the CO was running things or there was not organization to charter with. So a group of scouter who wanted a quality program got together and charted the unit themselves. This old guard usually get burned out very quickly so start to go with the flow. Even though they know its not totally by the books. This is usually because they end up relying on the parents to staff positions which means constant change as most parents only stick around while their son is in the program, and most never take time to be trained.

 

Why not find out how to become a member of this non-profit group, that way you can slowly work by making the changes from the top down.

[evry]

RememberSchiff...I did approve him for rank as did the other members of the BOR. Why? Because he met the requirements that are established for that rank. He received the required merit badges, he fulfilled his service hours, the Scoutmaster signed off on his Scout Spirit, and even if he did not perform his POR as Patrol Leader, he had the "backup" POR of Bugler which he performed at a couple of outings. I'm not going to deny rank to a 12 year old that believes he accomplished the objectives put out to him just because I feel that the way he accomplished them was wrong.

[RememberSchiff]

"If the board of review is for rank advancement, the board will satisfy itself that the Scout has done what he was supposed to do for that rank and will review with the Scout the requirements for the next rank. The board of review is also a way of reviewing the troop's progress"

 

If a scout cannot tell me anything about what he has done, if he gives me the impression of across the board confusion - his scouting experience is a blur as you put it, then it is time for a PAUSE. The scout needs some help and maybe the program too.

 

Opportunity missed. Scout and troop not served.

 

My $0.02,

[ScoutNut]

Did you, the SM, or the SPL, coach him in his POR?

 

Was he ever told by ANY of you that he was not fulfilling his POR?

 

He is 12 years old, and has a rather out of sight, out of mind, way of thinking. This is NOT an uncommon thing for that age.

 

Why do you insist that it means he is not getting a good Scouting program, that his parents are pushing him, that he does not have his own personality, and that he being denied a childhood? Those conclusions seem a bit over the top to me.

 

He seems to be enjoying himself, and learning as he is having fun.

 

What is so gosh darn sad about that?

 

 

[Thomas54]

 

No advice just some speculation.

 

Your 30 year scout master has checked out. He has entered a.realm where his previous merits are sustaining him. He is now in legacy and legend development and not boy development. The evil parent saw this and selected this troop because of this.

 

Daddy ASM's usually don't sign off on their son's rank. At least not in our Troop.

 

 

[evmori]

RememberSchiff...I did approve him for rank as did the other members of the BOR. Why? Because he met the requirements that are established for that rank. He received the required merit badges, he fulfilled his service hours, the Scoutmaster signed off on his Scout Spirit, and even if he did not perform his POR as Patrol Leader, he had the "backup" POR of Bugler which he performed at a couple of outings. I'm not going to deny rank to a 12 year old that believes he accomplished the objectives put out to him just because I feel that the way he accomplished them was wrong.

 

Which POR was he using for this rank. If it was PL, he should not have been passed since according to you, he was a PL in name only. That is not actively service as is required. There are no "backup" POR's for rank.

 

If you want to put a stop to this type of thing you need to draw a line in the sand.

[Mike F]

evry,

 

The boy's poor showing in discussion of how he met the position of responsibility (POR or leadership) requirement is very important.

 

There are two fundamental purposes for a Board of Review for rank advancement:

 

1. Ensure the scout has properly met the requirements. If he has not, he should be given a plan for properly meeting the requirements in writing and the SM or his designated ASM should work with him on it.

 

2. Through the BoR process, the Troop Committee is also performing an independent check on how well the SM is executing the program within the troop. When the TC finds problems, such as scouts who have had their POR signed off with unsatisfactory effort/results/etc, the TC needs to document these findings and have a talk with SM about how to strengthen the program.

 

I have been on both sides of this as a Member of Committee and as SM/ASM (at different times in different troops). It stings a little bit at first, but is a crucial part of maintaining checks and balances in a healthy program.

 

A SM is busy with many things and it's hard to keep your eye on everything at every level. I value the input from the Troop Committee via their Boards of Review to help me deliver a better program. The hard part for you will be convincing the SM it's not a direct criticism against him, but that youre just following the actual BSA program and are providing feedback to help make things better.

 

Good luck!

 

[gcnphkr]

While reluctant to further hijack this thread.

 

Regarding the POR. If a scout is in a position and is left in the position by the SM, SPL or Patrol (depending on the position) then he has meet the requirement. This is even if he did a piss poor job. The requirement says "serve actively" not "serve effectively" or "successfully fulfill the duties". If the SM, SPL or Patrol does not remove him from office then shame on them.

 

The discussion is appropriate in the BOR, not to disallow the credit but to provide feedback to the SM on the program.(This message has been edited by jet526)

[Twocubdad]

I like how we advise caution in dealing with the dad and the overall situation with the troop, but we don't mind having evry light the fuse from the other end, throwing the kid under the bus at the same time. What do you think is going to cause a bigger explosion? Confronting the troop/dad over his merit-badge-every-two-days plan, or making an example of his boy during a board of review?

 

BORs don't operate in vacuums. If the troop is all in agreement that this is how things work, denying this boy his advancement is going to be seen as picking on him and/or making a example of him because you don't like the way his dad is a bully. And that wouldn't be a totally inaccurate assesment.

 

Given the situation, evry and the board didn't have much choice. They do have a choice of what to do now. The PRIMARY function of a board of review is to assess how the TROOP is delivering it's program to the Scouts. The whole board of review needs to now report back to the troop committee that you have Scouts being signed off on advancement who are serving in PORs in name only. These boys are not meeting the rank requirements and it it the TROOP's responsibility to fix the program so they do.

 

This is an adult problem to fix. Don't try to fix it on a Scout's back during his Board of Review.

[Venividi]

Twocubdad writes:

BORs don't operate in vacuums. If the troop is all in agreement that this is how things work, denying this boy his advancement is going to be seen as picking on him and/or making a example of him because you don't like the way his dad is a bully. And that wouldn't be a totally inaccurate assesment.

 

I respectfully disagree. From the description, the dad's actions are a concern for the troop, but not a factor in questioning the advancement at the BOR. The issue that the BOR was faced with was whether the lad had really completed the requirements.

 

We have come a long way in the wrong direction when expecting a boy to meet requirements before he earns advancement is not the norm, but is seen as seen as picking on him. (It may be that the lad had met the troop's current standards to earn advancement, but I wasn't there, so cannot comment one way or the other.) The other boys in the troop know if the advancement was deserved or if it was rubberstamped. They won't say anything, but will see it as favoritism towards that particular boy.

 

Yes, the BOR should take feedback to the committee and the SM, expressing their concerns if a scout that hasn't fulfilled requirements is brought to a BOR for advancement, and have a discussion about it so that all get on the same page with respect to expectations.