Rifle & Shotgun shooting for Boy Scouts?

[Eagle1973]

Wow JoeBob, your experience has been the exact opposite of mine. I find that youth with real firearms are very safe. It has been my experience that they want to be safe, once taught the rules, because any violation of safe practices results in them not returning to the range.

 

I will agree that muzzle control with handguns is a bit more problematic, but that is resolved by teaching a more mature Scout (Venturer) and having one instructor per student until all the basics are learned and observed.

[JoeBob]

Eagle,

 

In range scenarios, when the subject knows they are being watched, you're right. They know the rules and follow them.

 

Afield, when firearm handling is the secondary concern, consciouness of direction muzzle is immaterial.

[Eagle1973]

As you discribe, I have never been a situation with such people and hope I never will. I guess it's a good thing that the Boy Scouts that you are involved with can't hunt, so you don't have to be in that situation either. If you are with Venturers, they need to go back to class.

[JoeBob]

Eagle,

 

I guess I wasn't clear enough in introducing my suggestion. The muzzle sweep problems that I've observed have nothing to do with scouting. Younger hunters and competitive shooters, whose scouting background is unknown to me, don't share the same respect for weapons that I was raised to have. I was merely suggesting a teaching exercise to help transition range discipline to real world application.

 

Didn't mean to get anybody riled up...

[HICO_Eagle]

I like your drill JoeBob. I guess your experience runs counter to my own experience with competitive shooters but I haven't been around younger competitive shooters (except at USPSA matches) in years so perhaps it has to do with video games or movies or some such nonsense. In any event, I firmly believe children are generally safer when they grow up with safety rules rather than have something locked away as some big mystery, whether it's power tools, wine/beer or firearms.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think muzzle control (and da related trigger control) is a learned habit/behavior, eh? There's no reason why it should be innate.

 

With any beginner, young or old, who hasn't yet developed the habit, you'll get mistakes when their brain is distracted by other things (loading, talking, etc.). That's normal, eh? Has nothing to do with stupidity or wanting to break the rules or not understanding. Yeh can't teach it with a lecture. Just has to do with mental load when hit with distractions. Like all habits, da earlier in life yeh learn 'em, the harder they are to break. And yeh can learn 'em early in life.

 

I like JoeBob's practice drill for beginners. I think it's da right way to go, because it helps them develop/reinforce the habit even when their brain is being distracted by other things.

 

And yah, I've been "swept". By adults as often as kids. As someone who picked up da habit early in life, it drives me bonkers.

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

It might be helpful to look at old military manuals for the "Manual of Arms". In this books (Civil War is the one I am most familiar with) they give exact step by step instruction to insure the safest handling of the weapon.

 

For example, it is a long muzzle loading weapon.

 

1) LOAD: Take the gun off your shoulder, place the butt of the gun to the left of your left foot, gun resting along thigh, rammer facing you. Hold the gun in your left hand a couple of inches below the muzzle and with the right hand reach back to the cartridge box on your right side.

 

2) HANDLE CARTRIDGE: Take a paper cartridge out of the box and hold it up to your mouth, elbow as high as your mouth. Make sure the paper tab on the end of the cartridge is between your teeth.

 

3) TEAR CARTRIDGE: Bring down your hand and elbow in a sweeping motion tearing of the end of the cartridge with your teeth. Position the cartridge, open end up on the far side of the barrel next to the front site. Keep your hand to the side of the barrel.

 

4) CHARGE CARTRIDGE: Quickly bring your hand over the barrel, pouring the black powder down the barrel, shaking the last bit of powder out of the cartridge making sure the back of your right hand is facing you and away from the end of the barrel. Toss away the cartridge and with the right hand place it flat against the rammer.

 

5) DRAW RAMMER: Rotate the hand around until, with the fingers, push the rammer half way out. Rotate the hand around, thumb down and grasp the rammer at the half way point, rotate the rammer around and place the tulip just inside the barrel and hold it there at an angle so that your hand is not inline with the barrel.

 

6) RAM CARTRIDGE: Push the rammer into the barrel all the way to the bottom, if there was a minie ball, that gets inserted at Charge Cartridge, but we do not use projectiles in reenacting.

 

7) RETURN RAMMER: Remove the rammer half way, invert hand at the half-way point and pull it the rest of the way out, turn it over and place it back in the rammer pipes. Lower your left hand all the way down the gun, hold your hand flat against the rammer after it has been returned.

 

8) CAST ABOUT: Draw the gun straight up with the left hand, grab with the right and hold the gun forward at a 45-degree angle, barrel up, lock plate at waist level, bring the right foot back and position it at a 90-degree angle from the left.

 

9) PRIME: Remove a primer cap from the cap pouch, hold with thumb and index finger. Pull the hammer back with the ring and little finger of the right hand to half-cock. Using these fingers, flick off the old cap and replace a new one on the cone.

 

10) READY: Raise the gun with both hands, to shoulder height. Hold the gun straight up in the air and with the thumb of the right hand, pull the hammer to full cock.

 

11) AIM: Bring the gun barrel down to the firing position and put your finger into the trigger guard.

 

12) FIRE: Pull the trigger. Watch the barrel to make sure your gun went off. If not, hold that position, regardless of the next command, DO NOT MOVE. This is the signal to the safety officer your gun did not fire. Hold for 15 seconds. If the gun still does not fire (hang fire) bring the gun back to the PRIME position, and begin the procedure to re-cap the weapon. Go to the READY position and wait for everyone else go catch up to you. Fire a second time, making sure the gun goes off. If not, regardless of the next command, DO NOT MOVE. Wait another 15 seconds. Bring the gun to the straight up position and step behind the line for assistance from the safety officer.

 

Anyone on the field that does not follow these exact instructions will find themselves sitting in the crowd watching the rest of the reenactment. Only when a review of these safety procedures is mastered will anyone be allowed on the field.

 

Yes, not all units observe the manual of arms, and they have problems along the way. In the 10 years I was associated with the Venturing Crew we NEVER had a safety problem. Other units around us did, but we didn't because we stuck to the manual of arms precisely.

 

A routine such as this could be adopted for any firing range so as to maximize the safety protocol expected by the instructor/range master. Any slight deviation of that protocol will mean the scouts becomes an observer rather than an participant immediately! Only after a complete and precise proof that the scout knows the protocol will he/she be able to return to the range.

 

As Captain of an active unit, I am expected to know and make sure all 15-20 persons under my command follow all protocol precisely at all times. I have 2 other Sergeants that assist with this process on the field with me double checking the safety.

 

If I were dealing with as few as one other, I would expect that person to perform a protocol exactly of loading and firing (especially hand guns) before I put any live ammunition in the hands of that person.

 

I spent my first year of squirrel hunting with my dad when I was 10 years old with the gun in my hands and the single .22 bullet in my pocket. I might have felt a little like Barney Fife, but I've never even come close to shooting myself or anyone else in 40 years of handling guns.

 

Stosh