Knife

[gracekouca]

Hi,

 

My son came back from Brownsea and told me some senior leaders have butterfly knives. He is very interested in getting one of those. I am not quite sure...Need advise.

Thank you.

 

 

[Narraticong]

A knife is a tool. And the user should be able to explain the particular need for any tool he is using. That being said, I would ask what use in normal Scouting activities would there be for a butterfly knife?

[Basementdweller]

I am guessing the boys were playing with them in this manner

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUeCrHNk8-k

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe-SCNPHz7w&feature=related

 

 

I probably would not get my son one because he is a young man and he will make bad choices from time to time.

[Scoutfish]

Is it for the "looks cool while totally impractical" MB?

 

Nope! Wouldn't get my son one either. Too many holes in the floor, walls, ceiling, dogs and his hands or eyes while trying to get good at it.

 

I cannot see any redeeming value to a butterfly knife in scouting.

[prairie]

I have only seen these sold as a fighting knife, about as appropriate as if I took a Gerber MkII to summer camp. Instead I carry a Spyderco Jester, a well made sub 2 inch thin lockback.

[oldisnewagain1]

Perhaps the first step would be to check with local PD because a knife of this type may not be legal in your area.

[perdidochas]

Check state/local regulations. I don't see the big deal about them, and if my boy requested (and it was legal), I'd tell him to save up for one, and then allow him to buy a single-edged butterfly knife. I'd provide the bandaids :-) Boys like knives.

[Eagledad]

Never say no to a scout, there is an opportunity here. The fastest way to get a boy to think and behave like a man is finding exercises where he makes mature decisions and practices mature skills in activities that interest him.

 

Those who have been to Philmont were likely introduced to hatchet throwing. Hatchet throwing is the skill of throwing hatchets at a target on a large wooden log. Hatchets and throwing sharp objects is something that intrigues most young males, so this activities draws scout like a fly on honey. Each person who wanted to participate had to learn the skills of throwing the hatchet and proper safety to be in the area. I dont know much about these knives, but the boys are intrigued by them and if they are legal, we can use their focused interest to our advantage to teach safety and proper use of knives. If limits have to be set like not using them for activities for which they arent safely designed like in a woods, that is a great place to learn the right tool for the right job. They also need to learn and understand to not let the image of of a certain tool like that knife put them in situations that will cause others to feel uncomfortable. This is an opportunity for the scout to practice putting the needs or concerns of other before themself. A wonderful life lesson.

 

It is important that we teach our youth how to react to the unknown with caution, not Fear. Caution is not the same as fear. Fear generally stops growth where as caution encourages it.

 

Barry

 

[Basementdweller]

The problem I have with it with in scouting is that it removed the knife from tool status to toy status.

 

 

The second issue I have is that your son maybe responsible and never have a problem with it. But the second he shows up with one, the troop problem child will get one too and accidentally end up destroying your $200 timberline. Of course mom and/or Dad can't pay for the tent.

 

[IM_Kathy]

check state laws and also troop laws...

 

I'm not sure on my state's law on them, but I know they are NOT allow in my son's troop because as shown in the video link someone posted you can see all sorts of violations of safety rules.

 

of course if the state allows them and your troop doesn't you will have to decide what you're going to say when he says he just won't take it to scout functions.

 

If my son came up to me wanting one I would simply say that those types of knives are used more for weapons and we don't keep weapons in my house. Of course if you're a hunter or gun collector that option wouldn't work either.

[perdidochas]

A butterfly knife (like any other knife) can be used as a toy or as a weapon, and can be dangerous. What the boys in the video are doing is unsafe, but that doesn't mean that butterfly knives are inherently unsafe. In the Phillipines, they view butterfly knives as we view lockblades--as tools (and weapons).

[Scoutfish]

Well, I see it like this: It all depends onthe setting.

When I was younger in the early/ mid eighties...nunchucks, Chinese throwing stars and the such were booming ( again?0 in popularity. Chuck Norris wasn't close to being a rRanger yet and VanDam didn't have a carrer yet.

 

I wanted a set of nunchucks, but couldn't afford any.

So what was the next best thing? Make your own!

 

If only I had the concept of "proper" instruction, training and use behind nunchucks!

 

I'm lucky I was able to still have kids, stuill talk, see out of BOTH eyes and still have friends!

 

Throwing stars? Yeah...lucky the phone and power company didn't fine me for all the TS's stuck in telephone ploes and such.

 

Again, lucky I still have bothe eyes, have a son and my friends and I stayed friends.

 

 

So as for the butterfly knife..The only reason I can see a scout wanting one at a scout setting is because of the cool factor. The same cool factor that made me want nunchucks, stars and even some Sai's.

 

If the scout wants one to use in some sort of controlled setting such as a karate school, or likewise type of schooling or training.....GO FOR IT!

 

But for scouting, th cool factor will outweigh any safety thoughts!

[pixiewife]

My Son sounds a lot like your son. My son does, however, have a legitimate knife collection. That said, he begged me for 6 months for a butterfly knife. He found them online, the boys in the troop told him about a knife store in an in-state tourist area that a lot of Scouts visit. He stared at them, he begged for one, he pleaded, he cajoled, he slipped the words "butterfly knife" into ANY conceivable sentence, and even some INconceivable ones!

My answer was a patented "NO". I must be about the same age as Scoutfish, because I remember my brother wanting all of those things and a butterfly knife. My mom said no, so I thought no was the right answer. No reason, just "no".

Flash forward to 2 1/2 weeks ago. Our family went to previously mentioned tourist area on vacation. My son found the legendary knife shop. We allowed him to buy the knife. $16 was not bad, and we figured we could observe him with it, and have something big to keep him in line with! Plus, he was putting his most responsible self forward, since it showed that we trusted him.

The knife itself was interesting. I "played" with it some. It has no value as a tool in any practical sense. However, he was enamored by it. 3 days later both of the handles broke, and it is completely unusable. He thinks he has a friend in the troop that has handles from a broken one, that he can replace his with.

What did all of this lead to? He found out that the knife is cool, in an impractical way. Bigger than that, he found out that cheap stuff, bought in a tourist trap very well may be junk! He found this out just days before leaving for Jambo with a pocketful of spending money, and a list of sites to see!

Everything is a learning opportunity. For you, and for him.

 

All of that being said, if you are nervous about injury, and he really wants to do the 'tricks', do a google search for trainer butterfly knives. You can buy them where the blade is not sharp, and is unable to be sharpened.you may be able to compromise, and it just may be able to get him through until the next best thing comes up!!!!

~Pixie

[Mr. Boyce]

I agree with the above poster.

 

The "value" of this kind of knife, for all but the most dedicated tinkerers, is that it's something you can play with.

 

So playing around with a knife is good sense???

[Pritch]

This topic provoked me to finally create an account.

 

First, a Balisong (butterfly knife) is not a suitable woods knife. They are inherently weak in the tang, are difficult to deploy under stress and present an unnecessary risk of injury to the user.

 

Second, the appeal of butterfly knives is the flashy play involved in opening and closing the knife. This behavior is wholly incompatable with the Totin Chip statement that "knives are not playthings." While one-handed deployment of a knife is a desirable feature, there are many better choices that can achieve it.

 

Third, carrying butterfly knives is illegal in many places. The US considers them "daggers" and recently fined Spyderco for shipping them by mail.

 

Simply rationalizing by saying "they're going to do it anyway" is copping out. I agree with letting boys learn from mistakes but this is a time where a little "adult supervision" is called for. Activities like axe throwing are supervised. Scouts acting that way on their own are looking to lose privileges.

 

I believe knives are important tools that should be chosen for the tasks anticipated. We need to educate our scouts on what makes a good knife for the outdoors - and what does not. In my opinion, butterfly knives have no more place in the woods than double edged daggers or throwing stars.

 

I am NOT an anti-knife guy. I think attitudes toward knives within BSA is marred by ignorance, fear of liability, and political correctness. The paranoia regarding fixed blades is just one example. Why is the absense of a hinge and the presence of a sheath such a cause for panic?