Suspected Drugs...

[Eamonn]

We have teams of drug sniffing dogs where I work.

They are very expensive to breed and train. So much so that I kinda think a run of the mill security firm isn't going to just happen to have one??

I'm having a problem!

I dislike the idea of sneaking.

Either this Lad has earned the trust to go on this trip or he hasn't.

If he hasn't? Why take him along?

If I was really that unsure about the Lad, I think I'd just let him know how I was feeling and ask him if he minded if I searched his kit.

Telling him that I was concerned about his welfare and the well being of the others on the trip.

"Drug Problems" Come in all shapes and sizes.

A co-worker has just finished rehab for abuse of prescription drugs.

I have a few friends who I think very well might be alcoholics. They seem to be unable to go very long without a drink of the hard stuff and have a hard time stopping once they start.

I count myself very lucky in that I did try pot and did inhale! But I didn't like it.

Being in London in the early 70's there were a lot of pills going around. I wish I could put my hand on my heart and say that I didn't try them because it was just wrong. But the truth is that I didn't try them because I was scared that I might like them! (So I never did.)

I talk almost every day with guys who are in jail because of drugs. Many if not not most say that they started when they were kids and wish that someone had did something before things got out of hand.

How you see or view this Lad might play a big part in what becomes of him.

See him as a no good drug taker and chances are is that is what he will become.

See him as a Lad with a problem who needs all the help you can give and even if you fail and the drugs win. You will have peace in the knowledge that you really did do your best.

I will say a prayer for this Lad. He needs all the help he can get.

Be honest and open with him.

It really is the best way to deal with him.

Ea.

[Basementdweller]

Drugs kinda bulky??????

 

 

boy oh boy, you guys are pretty clueless,

 

For a weekend outing you can fit a couple of joints just bout anywhere. external frame pack, pull the caps off, sleeping bags, mess kits, snack bags, toothbrush holder, toothpaste tubes, ball point pens, shampoo bottles, pocket knife, soap bottles, cans of pop. on and on and on. Unless someone tells you exactly where it is at you will never know and could spend hours looking for it. Drug dog would cut the search time.

 

If the parents are in denial you are going to loose him if you accuse him with out proof positive.

 

Then there is the "what if your wrong?"

 

If it was me, I would make sure he is never alone at the event......I would be his shadow and I would assign him a buddy to make sure he was never alone.

 

 

[Scoutfish]

 

 

Yeah, truer words were never spoken!

 

I mean, no disrespect, but this is almost funny. You can hide a joints worth of weed almost anywhere . That small amount can be hidden in a sock that you are wearing, inside the inner band of a scout cap, even in the rolled up edges of a neckerchief.

 

Yeah, I used to smoke some weed back in the day when I was an 18 year old "grown up who knew everything". Drank a lifetime of beer before I turned 21 too.

 

In the end, it comes down to this: You are responcible for anything tha happens to the other youth on that outing if you just totally ignore the anoymous tip.

 

And while we are speaking about it, take of yourmature, leader, grown up mom and dad thinking caps and put on a youth thinking cap.

 

You know why somebody gives an anonymous tip? Because they have a friend who is about to do something wrong, and they want to prevent it from happening, yet they do not want to lose the friendship of that friend or cause friction with that friend or considered to be a tattletale or narc by the rest of the troop.

 

No, It DOESN'T matter how correct or in the right that youth would be

He'd still be sovcially outcast by the other boys in the troop.

 

If nothing else, anonymous tips are better than complacency or apathy from the other boys.

 

Get the dog at the meeting place under the guise of a "demonstration event". See what the dog does or how it reacts. As non law enforcement , you can make a decision to make a learning experience out of this. You can even call in the law before hand. Explain it to the officer(s). From my experience, most officers will give a lecture to anybody if they think that will steer ( read scare) them straight. No paper work to fill out either.

 

 

Not every situation is a call the cops or face a slander suit situation.

[ScoutNut]

From Scoutfish - >>"You know why somebody gives an anonymous tip? Because they have a friend who is about to do something wrong, and they want to prevent it from happening,

[Scoutfish]

Ooops! I meant to say : You know ANOTHER reason why somebody gives an anonymous tip?

 

I was thinking it that way even though I didn't type it!

 

Sure, I have no doubt that a parent ( seems more likely thier influence than just a kids) could accuse "that other kid" of doing drugs..especially if "that other kid" stod in the way of their own "perfect angel" from holding a POR or getting the "deserved recognition" that "the other kid" was preventing.

 

 

But what if the tip is true? I'd rather be safe than sorry.

[Scoutfish]

Of course, if the accused has been active in the trop for any amount of trime or is a well enough of an aqqaintance with the SM, ASM or other adult leadership....then there ought to be some signs in behavioral change to some extent. Acting differently or being out of charachter somewhat.

 

[dScouter15]

While I think that this situation warrants further action by your troop's adult leaders, I think that bringing in the drug sniffing dogs is not the way to go. If we assume that the scout in question is in fact planning on bringing some illegal substances with him on this trip, I would be surprised if he were to pack it in a pack to be left at a meeting site like you're planning. I don't know why you think pot is "too bulky" to be carried on one's person, but I can assure you that considerable quantities of pretty much any drug can be concealed on one's person (I won't go into examples for the obvious reasons). If I were you, I'd move away from the thinking that you can catch the scout "red handed" with drugs on his person or in his property before departing for a high adventure outing. The only ways to do that reliably - drug-sniffing dogs, pat-downs, strip searches, etc - all lie well outside of the scope of what are considered necessary and prudent measures to be performed by a volunteer leader such as yourself.

 

Because you feel this "anonymous tip" is credible, I agree that you have some responsibility to address and manage the situation. Where do the kid's parents stand on this? Would you be able to work with them to reach a solution?

 

What kind of high adventure outing is this? Is there a good chance that the kid will have an opportunity to administer the drugs unobserved, and also remain under the influence with no one noticing?

 

If you feel strongly that this kid is infact abusing drugs, you can go directly to actual law enforcement with your concerns. They may or may not be able to address the situation based off the information you provide, but they may be able to offer some advice for how to manage it on your end.

 

I guess if it were me, I'd take the following approach in the short term: Send out a short memo to all scouts going on the trip, and their parents. The memo would discuss general health and safety information related to your outing - eg, the need to have updated and accurate medical forms on file, procedures in place in the event of medical emergencies, level of current health and fitness required to safely complete the activities scheduled on the outing, etc. Also include a statement saying something to the effect of:

 

"We would like to remind all scouts and adult leaders that our troop has a zero-tolerance policy regarding drug and alcohol use on troop outings. Drug use is dangerous, illegal, and contrary to the values promoted by the BSA and by our troop. Any scout found with tobacco, alcohol or illegal drugs, or believed to be under the influence of any of the above, will be immediately dismissed from the outing, and reported to law enforcement if appropriate."

 

Require the memo to be signed by both the scout and his parent, and returned to the SM prior to the trip. If you feel it beneficial, you can also arrange an SM conference with the scout you're worried about prior to the trip. Explain that you're concerned about his behavior recently, emphasize your zero tolerance policy on drugs, and then turn the conversation over to him.

 

In the long term, keep an eye on the scout you're concerned about, and be prepared to follow up with the scout's parents if your suspicions of drug use become built on something more credible than an anonymous tip. Many of the suggestions about bringing law enforcement speakers to troop meetings, or demonstrations of drug sniffing dogs are also very good.

 

Generally, move away from trying to be an undercover sleuth, or you run a good chance of getting yourself into trouble. Do what you can do in your capacity as an adult leader in the Boy Scout unit (Twocubdad offered some excellent advice), and refer anything else to the appropriate authorities if that becomes necessary.(This message has been edited by dScouter15)

[evmori]

Bulky drugs = dealer!

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

Hard case, eh? For sure, the various thefts (some admitted), the enabling parents, and general tone point to a lad who may well be using fairly frequently. A lad who is using frequently would try to bring stuff on a trip, where boys who are occasional users might not.

 

Some things I would not do:

 

I would not involve law enforcement unless the lad was dealing/supplying. If yeh can't deal with a misbehaving kid without calling the cops, you shouldn't be a scouter. Law enforcement has better things to do than substitute parenting or scoutmastering.

 

I would not send a generic note or signed "contracts" or any such silliness to all the trip participants. That approach to my mind shows a lack of fortitude. If yeh have a problem, confront the problem, don't spam all the other kids and their families with meaningless forms. Nobody needs a signed statement to be aware that it's not OK to bring weed on a high adventure trip. Just makes 'em feel you don't trust them, makes them feel yeh have a problem, and let's everyone know you don't have a clue how to really deal with it.

 

I would not fret in the least about "probable cause" and other pseudo-legal drivel. You're a scouter, not a cop. Behave like a scouter, not a cop.

 

Beyond that, da rest just depends on your relationships and knowin' all the people. I'd be hugely reluctant to go the dogs route; just too much sneakin' around for my taste, and it's sure to damage your trust with the boys unless handled very well. And yeh need that trust, because that more than anything is what stops this stuff. But then, if you're crossing international borders or going through airports on your HA trip, a kid with pot could be a disaster that affects everyone; and if yeh know the private firm with the dogs that will do it on a friendly basis, it might be something to consider.

 

I'd lean more toward talking with the lad, and/or being a bit more vigilant during the gear checks and on the trip. And then have a solid "plan" for what happens if/when you have an incident.

 

Beavah

 

[rdclements]

eolesen,

 

I appreciate the different experiences used to provide the good discussion...

 

I've had some guys in my units run into drug/alcohol/legal trouble. Here's what you do:

 

1. Read Beavah's post a few times.

2. Remember that you're an example for how a man is suppose to live his life.

3. You could be the 1 adult around this guy who sees past all the negative stuff that others see about him.

4. Have a grew trip with the crew.

[Vicki]

Sounds like Beavah and I are on the same page (see my earlier post). I also liked Eamonn's post. Our society just leans way too far over to applying universal "solutions" to problems best handled on an individual level. This is one scout, against whom nothing involving drugs has been proven. As far as the thefts are concerned, well, anyone who lost a piece of jewelry on their dresser is going to blame him - he's a thief! And when they find it underneath the dresser, they're not going to take it back cuz that would be embarrassing. He made restitution, I believe you said? He may have learned from his mistake. Of course he's an at-risk kid, there's no denying that. I wouldn't necessarily "trust" him the way I would another scout, but this rush to judgement with dogs and police and new forms is a bit much.

 

Basementdweller has several good points - one of which is use the buddy system to your advantage in this situation. Because unless you employ drastic, trust-destroying measures, you don't stand a chance of finding anything. And realize you won't just be destroying the trust of this one scout.

 

Let's try to treat human beings with respect even when they're not adults - actually, especially when they're not adults.

 

Vicki(This message has been edited by Vicki)

[sherminator505]

grew trip?

[Engineer61]

If this were a school trip...what would they do?

 

They would call the Police immediately and have them search.

 

That is what you should do.

[evmori]

If this were a school trip...what would they do?

 

They would call the Police immediately and have them search.

 

That is what you should do.

 

This isn't school.

 

I see no reason to do anything except go on the trip & pay attention to the Scout in question.

[eolesen]

What would a school do? Please. They'd just as soon brand a second grader as a sexual predator if they give a girl an unwanted kiss on the playground......

 

The dogs are off. Calmer winds are prevailing. A behavior contract and SMC should suffice, as will a couple pair of watchful eyes...