Stosh Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 I'm sure you would be just as offended by a non-veteran having their coffin draped with a US FLAG as well. So one can argue all they want about funeral palls on civilian caskets and triangular shaped foldings, and all kinds of made up junk about the flag and conclude the US Congress is full of _____ when it comes to "respect". It's a free country, knock yourself out. Me, as long as I am a scouter teaching the boys US Flag etiquette, I will use the US Flag Code as prescribed by Act of Congress. It's a level of honesty I'm willing to live with. I am not active service military, so that protocol doesn't apply to me I am a civilian. So, if anyone doesn't approve of me using the US Flag Code for proper Flag etiquette, not a problem. Just don't expect me to get all excited about something someone makes up on their own. In this day and age, it's kinda nice to find someone who actually knows what they are doing when they do things according to the Code. It's becoming the exception to the rule in an anything goes society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclops Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 So how we fold the flag doesn't matter. OK. You want some negative comments? Fold the flag into a rectangle, or don't bother folding it at all at your next flag-lowering assembly. So this is an opportunity for an experiment to find out. I've rolled it up before with no negative comments (prevents creases) but I haven't tried the rectangle thing. Might be worth a try to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 People role it up on the flag pole all the time. It doesn't need to be folded to be stored away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Keep to the code, Stosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclops Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 Arrrr! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scourge Posted September 19, 2015 Share Posted September 19, 2015 (edited) Is it safe to say there are prescribed ways of doing things (US Code) and accepted practices (various manuals on flag etiquette from the military) which have made their way in to civilian life which have become common practices? Edited September 19, 2015 by Scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is it safe to say there are prescribed ways of doing things (US Code) and accepted practices (various manuals on flag etiquette from the military) which have made their way in to civilian life which have become common practices? Yes indeed. Even within branches, there are variations. Different leadership, different perspectives and nuances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDPT00 Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yes, if it were done by our Scouts or military personnel. If it were done by a Japanese color guard, folding their flag and ours, no. Offended might be a strong word. I'd have to be willing to accept their ignorance to how we typically fold our flag, and I think I could do that. Don't know. Never seen it happen. Have you? The only time I've folded our flag in a rectangle is to fit it into a box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Yes, if it were done by our Scouts or military personnel. If it were done by a Japanese color guard, folding their flag and ours, no. Offended might be a strong word. I'd have to be willing to accept their ignorance to how we typically fold our flag, and I think I could do that. Don't know. Never seen it happen. Have you? The only time I've folded our flag in a rectangle is to fit it into a box. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with folding it in a triangle as BSA recommends and is traditional. And if the Cub Scouts are doing a flag ceremony where they need to fold the flag and they fold it in a square and then into a triangle at the end, that is just as correct as well. If they fold it so the stripes are on the outside. Not a problem. The boys are simply doing their best and according to the US Flag Code, they are correct with their efforts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cambridgeskip Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 While I'm not obsessive about flag protocol (UK protocol of course!) I do like to broadly observed it. Some people say it's old fashioned or just a symble or whatever but so what? Think about this, when you meet someone new do you shake their hand? When someone proposes a toast do you raise your glass? I suspect you do. Those are just two examples of symbolism we have in society. Neither of them have any actual practical purpose (at least not in modern times) but they are gestures that as a community we have collectively decided and accepted mean something. Flags and now they are treated, while perhaps having a little more theatre to the whole process, is another part of that symbolism. I can't articulate exactly why that wider symbolism is as important as it is, (and certainly it goes wider than what a veteran might think) an anthropologist might do better, but it does matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It would drive you crazy what we do here in Texas. After doing the pledge of allegiance they do the Texas pledge. Can't imagine too many yankees wanting to pledge their allegiance to the state of Texas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertrat77 Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 It would drive you crazy what we do here in Texas. After doing the pledge of allegiance they do the Texas pledge. Can't imagine too many yankees wanting to pledge their allegiance to the state of Texas. Krampus, I didn't know there was a TX pledge, but it doesn't surprise me If I'm in TX during a ceremony with the state pledge, I'll stand politely. Reminds me of attending sister service ceremonies...I was Air Force, but when Army/Navy/Marines/Coast Guard would sing their service song, I'd stand at attention with them. Sometimes, I'd sing along too (but not too loudly), though I was/am very proud of the AF and think the AF Song is best of the bunch. But I must admit, "The Army Goes Rolling Along" is a very catchy tune! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwazse Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) ... Don't know. Never seen it happen. Have you? The only time I've folded our flag in a rectangle is to fit it into a box. When scouts retire the massive flags at our HQ (Flag Plaza) they are told to fold it thrice, then fold either end over into the middle, then fold it into a rectangle. I always council my scouts that if they are having trouble with the triangle fold, for whatever reason, unfold the diagonal folds and refold rectangular. Or, ask a fellow color guard to take your place. Either way, no disrespect would be intended, and we will help figure out what the problem was later. Edited September 21, 2015 by qwazse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stosh Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Yeah, like those huge flags that they improperly and against US Flag Code display horizontally over the football field that get folded back into one huge triangle? Yeah right. They may be ignorant about displaying the flag, but by default whatever they do the flag will be folded appropriately. @@qwazse if your boys falter during the Flag retirement, their backup is to just fold the flag as neatly as possible. There's nothing wrong with that and no disrespect is given. Others might think it strange but it is because of their ignorance of the US Flag Code, not because your boys are doing anything wrong. As long as they don't wad it up into a bundle, they are okay. It would be NICE if the boys all learned to fold the triangle, but it is NOT mandatory. Personally I like the triangle and it's a good lesson in observing the details of what you are doing with the flag. One would miss out on that if they just "folded" it into a rectangle. On the other hand, I don't want my boys so focused on getting the flag folded they forget about why they are doing the ceremony in the first place. Edited September 21, 2015 by Stosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krampus Posted September 21, 2015 Share Posted September 21, 2015 Krampus, I didn't know there was a TX pledge, but it doesn't surprise me If I'm in TX during a ceremony with the state pledge, I'll stand politely. Not to get totally off topic, but yeah, the pledge is below. Also there are a whole slew of ways to display the flag in concert with the US flag. It's a big deal down hear. Of course, yes it is true, everything is bigger in Texas. https://www.tsl.texas.gov/ref/abouttx/flagpledge.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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