If the BSA were to provide services to girls, whats the best way?

[moosetracker]

I would be fine with a code program through cubs, boy scout & venturing. If you leave boy scouts out of the co-ed move you will weaken the strength of that program to compete with venturing. If you have the kids in a co-ed program then give them an option of staying co-ed with junior ventureing and venturing or the boys could go to boy scouts, the group that has been together since first grade will choose to stay as a group and move to Ventures. The only thing that boy scouts would need is a name change. Their program would work fine for either gender.

 

So I know the UK has a co-ed program, but I dont know if they killed off the girl scouts in that country.. If we do kill off the girl scouts can we take the cookie fundraiser as the spoils of war?

 

[UCEagle72]

The World Association of Girl Guides and Girl Scouts is still quite strong: http://www.wagggsworld.org/en/home

 

Ok ... y'all seem to be convincing me to make it a co-ed program throughout, with the option for COs to make the decision if they want their program co-ed or not.

 

[jhankins]

Great ideas here.

 

I don't see it happening though until the LDS church backs out of the BSA. Many church members don't see that too far away, maybe 5 years at the most!

[emb021]

Girl Guides UK still exist. How big/strong it is, is another question.

 

Not sure how 'strong' WAGGGS is in comparison to WOSM.

 

"I don't see it happening though until the LDS church backs out of the BSA. Many church members don't see that too far away, maybe 5 years at the most!"

 

Why does the LDS need to 'back out' of the BSA for the BSA to go co-ed?? Venturing is co-ed, and the LDS doesn't seem to have an issue, as they are able to keep their crews all-male. I would think that so long as they can determine that their units can be single gender, that should be fine. The LDS is involved with Scouts Canada, which is co-ed.

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

The only thing I see them objecting to is co-ed summer camps and camporees.

 

I don't know about LDS in other areas, but I know ours all take summer camp on the same week and I think ours was the only troop on the same week as them, one year & one year only.. I don't remember what else they complained about, but I know our troop was upset that Mondays swimming meritbadge session was cancelled and not rescheduled for another time so the LDS troop could do swim test when they came in on Monday.. It was not a complaint about the LDS religious traditions, but more that the camp did not find a solution by giving a 2nd session some other day during free time. There were other things that I can't remember that definately stated our troop was a non-entity while catering to LDS..

So in our area they can block out an entire week for themselves and not share with the girls. Not sure at a camporee if LDS even goes.. Or would they camp over since they can't travel on Sunday??

 

Since BSA depends on LDS, if it is true that they may split, then serious consideration should be made to go co-ed. Somehow they need to balance the loss on one large group with the gain of another.

 

Why are LDS pulling out? What are they unhappy with?

[shortridge]

Co-ed all the way through, with a slightly revised age and program scheme.

 

- Cubbing (Cubs) up to age 10. Arrow of Light is the highest award. The den is the core program group of the pack. The Jungle Book tale will need to be revised to reflect involvement of both boys and girls.

 

- Scouting (Scouts) up to 14. First Class is the highest award, recognizing mastery of Scoutcraft skills. Merit badges offer an introduction to a wide range of program areas. The patrol is the core program group of the troop.

 

- Venturing (Venturers) up to 18. Eagle is the highest award, recognizing both mastery of Scoutcraft skills and leadership abilities. It no longer depends largely on earning merit badges, but focuses instead on leading outdoor treks and organizing community-service projects. The Ranger Award recognizes superior mastery of Scoutcraft skills and instructor-level expertise in outdoor adventure. The Quest and TRUST Awards remain much the same. Merit badges may be earned, but they're not the focus. The patrol is the core program group of the crew. Sea Scouting remains a semi-independent part of Venturing.

 

After that, you become a grownup.

 

Varsity teams and Venture patrols are dead.(This message has been edited by shortridge)

[Eagle92]

Short,

how about Rovers 18-21?

 

As for how Girl Guides are doing in the UK. I can tell you that the 1 GG troop I encountered when I was over there had a Queen's Scout as a leader. She didn't like some of the restriction on the GGs and she decided to start her own Scout Troop for those girls wanting to do Scout activities. She took 1/2 the GG troop with her.

 

Also When I worked for Supply, we had one group of GS leaders buying our How To Book, Sparklers, and Program Helps. They modified PH to suit their needs. They stated that the BSA had better literature and program.

 

[moosetracker]

For Venturing to be the group to earn you Eagle rank in, some of it's attitude over rank advancement would need to change..

 

Understanding that BSA may push the rank advancement too much Venturing (at least around here) doesn't push it at all.

 

My husband after being on the EBOR for about 5 years is discussing the possibility of maybe it's first Venturing crew member going for the rank of Eagle. The Venturing awards might not even bother existing, no one has earned those in forever.

 

As stated before our Venturing crews flounder if not tied to the troop. Not being in Venturing but just an outsiders observance is the "decide whatever you want, has them decide for all fun and only fun, and they don't grow and advance. After awhile parting (whether it be a kayaking theme group, or a rock climbing theme group or a whatever we want to do group, with no purpose to strive toward it still winds up as fun with out a purpose.. Partying.) with no real goals or objectives it slowly gets old and they drift apart. The rise an fall of a Venturing program in the average 3 to 5 year life cycle (at least in our area. I know others areas have successful groups, but I would like to know if they get their Venturing groups to work toward goals and advancements somewhere along the way.)

 

Explorers also seemed to have a life cycle of a group. I was talking to an Explorer at our program kick-off this spring about it. Though they had a set skill to work for, Firefighting or police or rescue work (etc.) it was a group of kids with one specific purpose or goals as they grew out of the program, they failed to get new recruites to their speciallized interest, so the program died as they left it.. another 3 to 5 year average life cycle program.

 

Boy Scouts may be boy lead, but there is an established set line of skills, advancement to work towards, and they stress trying alot of new things, not just doing one thing until your board of it or grow out of it without new recruits comeing in after you. Yes, easier for adults to hijack and take over but also easy enought to run the program the right way, and the troops running it the right way will be your strongest.. It is just a program that over time has proven it's success..

 

Venturing for me, it still has bugs in it's formula it has to work out before I see it as a successful formula. (again, all from the point of veiw of how the program is working in my area. I realize other areas feel Venturing is highly successful.)

 

So I would not vote for the elimination of Boy Scouts for Venturing at the older age..

 

Also as stated before Boy Scouts depend on their older scouts to teach their younger scouts the skills. Without the older scouts the skills will be taught by the Adults.. You might as well just extend the cub scout program then.

[nldscout]

How about NO FREAKIN WAY, and we quit talking about it like its gonna happen, cause we all know its not.

 

Truth be told it you would lose several sponsor including the LDS church.

[SSScout]

Beavah: PM? Any ? Yet?

[pack195]

In our Pack we have the Fox Patrol (siblings, girls) they help with fundraisers, go camping, help with service projects. So why not make them a part of the pack. we take materials from the Tiger,Wolf & Bear handbook and apply it to them. I look at it as a support group for the Boys - if the whole family is coming to the meeting and having fun then the boy stays in the program. this is our second year of the Fox patrol and its working.

[packsaddle]

A knock on the door and Yortuk and Georg Festrunk turn toward each other and in unison exclaim, "Foxes!!"

 

Hi Vicki

[Basementdweller]

Not sure I like the name Fox patrol, why not just call them the beaver patrol. I am being silly or course

 

 

But I do like the concept.

 

So do they were uniforms and all or do you just have a den specific t shirt.

 

More details please.

[Stosh]

Local option per CO's choice.

 

We struggled with female leaders, then female Explorers/Venturers, and now we're addressing the rest of the program. It's just a matter of time.

 

Scout camp? Co-ed weeks, female weeks, and male weeks. Everyone is happy.

 

Camporees? Go with Kudu's 300' rule and there shouldn't be a problem. Maybe not mix the patrols due to the male/female chaperon issue. For those that really are concerned, maybe a 301' rule for the mixed troops. That's a US football field of separation. Most troops don't separate themselves that far.

 

I'm thinking it's more political/emotional problems than it is practical ones.

 

I've dealt with co-ed groups for 40 years and haven't had a problem (yet). I lay out high standards and no one has ever challenged them. I've had some great trips over the years with mixed groups. It's not as hard as people make it out to be.

 

If a CO has a problem, they can work around it, i.e. all-male week at camp, etc.

 

Stosh

[Eagle92]

The male-female relationship problems I've seen and dealt with occur with the Adult leaders, not youth. I've even seen coed sleeping arrangements with the German scouts I encountered, although their tents were large enough for the entire patrol. But I don't see that happening.