Membership Decline Reasons

[Basementdweller]

Want to Save scouting?

 

 

Make Cub Scouts Coed.

 

Lower the Venturing join age to 11.

 

I have a large number of families that would love to have their girls join.

 

Simple solution,

[emb021]

"If scouting is not known among Hispanics, then why are there scout associations all over Central and South America? Also Didn't Chile hold a WSJ? I think scouting works across the cultural divide, as evidenced by Scouting being a world wide movement.

 

"In addiiton to BP's questiuon that we should ask what the Hispanic community wants, why don't we also look at some of the things done in Hispanic countries."

 

 

Yes, there are scout associations in all central & south american countries. Chile was, in fact, the first non Commonwealth country to adopt Scouting (before the US did). HOWEVER, what I've heard is that scouting is more for the 'elites' then for everyone like we try to do here in the US. But even here in the US, we could look at scouting in our Hispanic communities (Puerto Rico, Cuban community in south florida, hispanic communities in various areas) in addition to C/S America.

 

 

[emb021]

"Want to Save scouting?"

 

"Make Cub Scouts Coed."

 

May happen.

 

"Lower the Venturing join age to 11."

 

No. Bad idea. Venturing is a high school/college age program. You can't just add in middle school kids to the mix. Scout troops already see the issues with mixing middle school & high school kids. Better idea would be to reduce Boy Scout to 11-14, and take it co-ed.

 

"Simple solution"

 

Not really. there are a LOT of issue that will need to be worked out.

 

[desertrat77]

Coed scouting, or at least some substantial progress in that direction, will indeed boost the BSA, and it give the movement new life.

 

As a former Brownie co-leader, and the father of two girls, I can safely say that many girls would love to be part of the BSA for the adventure. Waiting to turn 14 to join Venture is a painful wait for many. Both girls and boys thrive on adventure, and the girls are more than capable to meet any challenge that comes their way.

[WAKWIB]

This has been a interesting thread to follow. I guess I have a strong case of tunnel vision as there is absolutely no compelling evidence in our Council of a membership level crises. Never really has been much of a problem here. We experienced a slight decrease in the late 70's and early 80's and that had much more to do with TAY than with the much maligned handbook of that time. It rebounded from that quickly.

Some reason I think that Heart of America has been somewhat immune to membership issues in the Boy Scout division anyway.

1) a strong volunteer ethic in our community

2) a strong generational flow to scouting. Past Scouts seem to beget lots of future Scouts. Very traditional roots here.

3) an intense focus on the Cub Scout experience and a great facility for their level of "camping"

4) a strong emphasis on camping in the Boy Scout division. You are considered to be way out of whack if your troop does not camp once a month. Also a troop that does not go to summer camp somewhere isn't considered healthy at all. High Adventure (national bases, and other settings)is promoted heavily and accessed heavily.

5) the long-standing influence of the Tribe of Mic-0-Say local honor camper society. We also have a very strong Order of the Arrow Lodge.

6) The majority of Scouts in our area stay fairly active after the age of 15 and provide good leadership for patrols and troops as well as serving as Den Chiefs. We seldom, if ever. have a critical shortage of summer camp staff. In fact, you had better apply early and often if you wish to get the position you want.

 

I don't mean this to sound like bragging. And I suspect there are many councils that can claim just as much of a strong, stable Scouting membership.

 

Frankly I think National has a strong tendency or over-react to demographic trends. Their positions are justified by a perceived "need" to change things to "save" the program.

[WAKWIB]

This has been a interesting thread to follow. I guess I have a strong case of tunnel vision as there is absolutely no compelling evidence in our Council of a membership level crises. Never really has been much of a problem here. We experienced a slight decrease in the late 70's and early 80's and that had much more to do with TAY than with the much maligned handbook of that time. It rebounded from that quickly.

Some reason I think that Heart of America has been somewhat immune to membership issues in the Boy Scout division anyway.

1) a strong volunteer ethic in our community

2) a strong generational flow to scouting. Past Scouts seem to beget lots of future Scouts. Very traditional roots here.

3) an intense focus on the Cub Scout experience and a great facility for their level of "camping"

4) a strong emphasis on camping in the Boy Scout division. You are considered to be way out of whack if your troop does not camp once a month. Also a troop that does not go to summer camp somewhere isn't considered healthy at all. High Adventure (national bases, and other settings)is promoted heavily and accessed heavily.

5) the long-standing influence of the Tribe of Mic-0-Say local honor camper society. We also have a very strong Order of the Arrow Lodge.

6) The majority of Scouts in our area stay fairly active after the age of 15 and provide good leadership for patrols and troops as well as serving as Den Chiefs. We seldom, if ever. have a critical shortage of summer camp staff. In fact, you had better apply early and often if you wish to get the position you want.

 

I don't mean this to sound like bragging. And I suspect there are many councils that can claim just as much of a strong, stable Scouting membership.

 

Frankly I think National has a strong tendency or over-react to demographic trends. Their positions are justified by a perceived "need" to change things to "save" the program.

[desertrat77]

Wakwib, I can understand how Heart of America has continued to excel. I had the privilege of attending summercamp at Bartle Scout Reservation in the late '80s. The emphasis on scouting values, council traditions, and the great outdoors (as well as the other qualities you mentioned) impressed me greatly. A scout from any era would feel right at home at Bartle.

[AvidSM]

If the BSA went co-ed it would mean the end to the GSA. My wife is a GSA leader (was a girl scout and earned the Gold award) and she cant wait till my daughter ages out, because of the many changes that have been made to that program.

 

As for asking Hispanic/Latinos, Asians and African Americans what they would want out of scouting, the BSA did just that in 2006. The results are reported in the BSA's 2006-2010 Strategic Plan Research report, #02-1058 (2007 Printing). In this report, Hispanic/Latino parents suggested: using sports stars, actors and authority figures in their community to promote scouting; advertising in Hispanic/Latino publications and Focusing on values taught through Scouting. I know that my council has recently hired a Latino DE. It would be interesting to see who other Councils are hiring.

 

In my district, there are troops that backpack several times a year and there are others that hardly camp at all. It is well known amongst the Scoutmasters which troops are more patrol and outdoor orientated than the others. The Webelos II scouts and parents are encouraged to shop around and find the troop that fits them best. To change the program and training to promote less car camping and more "patrol adventures" would not affect some troops at all and would negatively affect the membership in others. Some boys (and their parents) need more structure and less camping. Returning Wood Badge training to the way it was is not going to change that. It won't convert the Webelos III's into boy scouts (they would drop out instead) and it won't draw more boys off the street to join scouting. We sell the current program as a "fun adventure", changing it to a "fun patrol adventure" is not going to get us any more boys.

 

Back in 1972, the group of leaders that existed then, left the program and took their son's with them, in protest of it's urbanization. These leaders were the heart and soul of scouting and the same can be said for our current volunteers. They, like the group in 1972 have their breaking point and would certainly protest if something drastic is done to the program that they can't find a workaround for. Changing the program to a "patrol adventure" is a noble idea, but would be too drastic.

 

[Basementdweller]

I wasn't taking boy scouts being coed.

 

Venturing is High adventure????? Posers is what most of the crews are. In our area it is mostly kids with no scouting experience being recruited. Their only draw is the ladies.

 

The only thing BSA is lacking to make the Cub Scout to Crew work is a 3 year program.

 

My daughter is now a girls scout and hates hates hates it. She cannot wait to join venturing. There is 6 other young ladies in our pack families that are virtually members of cub scouts, they just lack the membership card and blue shirt.

 

I don't like girl scouts. end of discussion

 

Half tempted to sign them up.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Thomas54]

 

Is there a good book on the history of Boy Scouts? I have many SM handbooks. Even the first "Scouting for Boys" with the psycho-analytical sub book with it. I am looking for a what happened, why it happened and when it happened type book.

 

 

[sst3rd]

Basementdweller,

 

No.

[emb021]

"If the BSA went co-ed it would mean the end to the GSA. My wife is a GSA leader (was a girl scout and earned the Gold award) and she cant wait till my daughter ages out, because of the many changes that have been made to that program."

 

Don't agree that the BSA going co-ed will kill the GSUSA. Girl Guides STILL exist in many countries where Scouting is now co-ed.

 

"I wasn't taking boy scouts being coed."

 

Well, making Venturing a middle school/high school/college age program is impractical. You really can't have units with the whole range of youth. Most countries split up the program sections along age lines that usually aren't more then 4-5 years each.

 

"Venturing is High adventure????? Posers is what most of the crews are. In our area it is mostly kids with no scouting experience being recruited. Their only draw is the ladies."

 

Venturing is more then 'high adventure'. Venturing is open ended in its program. Outdoors is but one possible focus. There is also sports, arts/hobbies, religious life (think church youth groups) and Sea Scouts. In my area, Venturing crews are a mix of kids: former (sometimes current) boy scouts, disasstified girl scouts, kids who were never scouts.

 

 

[emb021]

"Is there a good book on the history of Boy Scouts? I have many SM handbooks. Even the first "Scouting for Boys" with the psycho-analytical sub book with it. I am looking for a what happened, why it happened and when it happened type book."

 

Have you check out "Boy Scouts of America: A Centennial History", which came out last year??

 

Be aware that many times the 'why' of things isn't always given. The book isn't perfect, but pretty decent.

 

[Basementdweller]

We have several no camp not high adventure crews. We have one that meets at a gun range and shooting is all they do. We have one that meets at a volunteer fire department and is active as fire fighter/ems. one involved in law enforcement somehow and another involved in horses/ranching too.

 

There are two different high adventure crew that haven't camped, rafted or backpacked since their inception.

 

Our troop is more active and high adventure than any of the districts crews....... In our troops opinion they are posers.

[packsaddle]

Basementdweller, my daughter had the same feelings. She begged me to let her do the stuff my son was doing instead of the boring stuff she was doing in GS. And she would have been better at it than any of the boys if scouting had been coed. So I took her camping and backpacking and rock climbing, etc, separately. She's far better in the outdoors than most of the men I know in scouting. She's both competent and confident...comfortable in any kind of weather and resourceful to find solutions when things don't go well. But that's water under the bridge now, finishing up at college and about to get on with her life. But it would have been really good.