Parent Participation

[Exibar]

Here's an old and new topic.

 

simply, how much parent participation should a troop have? How much is too much and more importantly, how much would be too little?

 

I'm ScoutMaster and Frankly, I've discouraged my parents from camping with us, they'll just be hovering over their kids. I've always felt that those parents that want to be involved are already signed up as a Committee member or ASM. Those that don't want to be involved, aren't signed up and generally drop their kids off at the meetings and pick them up.

I would rather NOT force participation from parents that don't want to be there. I ask for parent's help when needed, it's always the same ones that help out and I'm ok with that.

 

I've always stood by the saying that... It's BOYscouts, not Parentscouts.

 

But my question is how much parent participation would be considered too little? How much is too much? anyone able to help me with the "sweet spot"?

 

Mike B

[mbrownkc7]

Discourage parents from camping with their children? That has to go down as one of the craziest comments I have ever heard of. Why not teach them scouting? Are you planning on being there all the time? Why can't they enjoy watching their boy learn during camping events?

 

Maybe I don't understand your reasons but I can never imagine myself telling a parent to not come. I would not feel comfortable doing so.

 

Please let me know how that is working for you.

[AlamanceScouter]

I am a novice to Scouting so my answer does not come from experience...

 

I think that I would encourage as much participation from parents as possible as it relates to the overseeing of the program from a committee level....especially if I had a strong CC who could set the agenda/goals and keep the focus on them.

 

I would not want anybody other than the SM and the ASM's on the camp outs. It just seems to me that the boys would not in as advantageous position to build their leadership and Scouting skills if mom and/or dad were around. When my son crosses over to a Scout troop I want it to be one that is truly boy lead and I just don't see that happening if you have too many adults handing around.

[evmori]

If the unregistered parents want to go camping with the Troop I would let them know they are going as observers only. If that isn't agreeable, then they don't go.

[Eagle92]

Mbrown,

I can name one time when I would not allow parents:when the PLC specifically states that they no longer want parents and siblings along on trips. That is something I and others in the PLC did tell the SM and CC one time after a trip that went bad due to the parents and siblings issue.

 

I concur with comments to far, let the 'rents know that they are observing the youth only, and that since they are camping, they must pull their fair share of the workload for the adults, i.e. cooking, cleaning, cutting firewood, etc. Oraginize them as a patrol train those that need it to do the jobs, get them out of their comfort zones, and KEEP THEM AWAY FROM THE SCOUTS AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE (caps for emphasis).

[Eamonn]

"Discourage parents from camping with their children? That has to go down as one of the craziest comments I have ever heard of. Why not teach them scouting? "

Poppycock!

There are times and places for adults to learn about Scouts and Scouting, trying to teach a herd of parents about Scouting when the Scouts are at camp is not the time or the place.

I never have and never will be in favor of having too many adults around at camp.

I see no reason for having them there. In my view they take away from the real reason why we go to camp and a lot of times add more problems.

We have had camps where we have invited parents to come and visit and weekend family camps.

Of course transportation might be one reason for having a few extra parents tag along. But other than that, if a parent wants to get involved? He or she should offer their services to the Committee.

Ea.

[Stosh]

Because I have a small troop, only the SM and ASM's have direct contact with the boys. Parents are involved on the committee level only. If we need a parent to fulfill out 2 deep leadership, it is by invite only.

 

On campouts, the SM and ASM's have all been screened and are required to keep out of the business of the boys unless there is a safety issue.

 

This year at summer camp, we will have a SM and 2 ASM's That is more more than ideal. Last year while the boys did their thing at camp, the adults studied edible plant identification and I'm not sure what my one ASM's in charge of adult education is planning for this year. I'm looking forward to getting a run down on something fun, whatever it may be. Otherwise I have a 3 series book that I will read in my down time, which is pretty much all the time except when I'm kayaking and/or eating.

 

Last year our methods were so "different" from the way everyone else was running their programs, that we were asked to put on some ad hoc symposiums for other leaders to get some insight into what we were getting done with our boys. We noticed that some of the processes and methods of how the camp changed for this coming year some of which seems to be influenced by what we provided.

 

SM - Not a parent of any of the boys in the troop.

 

ASM #1 - Parent, but previous SM in a different troop who has extensive boy-led, patrol-method expertise.

 

ASM #2 - Not a parent of any of the boys in the troop.

 

CC and some of the committee members are parents of the boys. 2 committee members are not parents of any of the boys in the troop.

 

Stosh

[Lisabob]

I wish my son's troop would sometimes discourage parents from going on events. He is in an active troop that camps 10 months out of the year, plus they have a venture patrol. The troop goes to some pretty neat places. Naturally, many parents want to go along and have those experiences too.

 

But - I completely agree with Exibar - it is not "parentscouts!"

 

Problems arise when you have as many adults as boys (or more adults than boys!) on a trip. Many, many adults (even those on the committee/as ASMs) are unaccustomed to standing back and letting things unfold without their input or control. Even well-intentioned adults often have a hard time letting the boys do their thing. This applies even to those who have been trained. A few hours of training does little to guarantee that adults understand "boy led," especially for those adults for whom training is more about basic skill acquisition or for whom boy scouting is a new experience (distinct from cub scouting).

 

At that point, one of two things happens:

1. Some adult leaders have to spend a lot of time and energy running interference and generally keeping (again, often well-intentioned) adults out of the boys' hair, all without upsetting too many adults and causing additional drama, or

 

2. No adults do this, and ownership of the program is usurped by the overflow of adults who can't keep their mouths shut and helping hands to themselves.

 

So - how much participation is "enough?" Well that depends heavily on the adults and the boys, and maybe also on the activities in question. But I sure wish more adults would take the opportunity to let their boys grow a little bit without mom or dad nearby.

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

Encourage parent participation on campouts, but also encourage parents to register with the Troop as committee members if they want to continue attending most campouts. Parent participation develops leadership for the Troop. Trained and registered parents provide coverage for outings and campouts if the SM or an ASM is unable to attend. The risk of canceling campouts is reduced when you have sufficient leadership depth that provides more than the minimum required 2-deep leadership.

 

Lay down the Troop ground rules for campouts: 1) Parents camp in their own area away from the boys, 2) Stay out of the Patrol campsites unless there is an emergency or youre teaching a class, 3) Do not hover over the boys and let them make mistakes and learn from them.

 

Very few adults enjoy doing a lot of rustic camping month after month and only the ones that are truly committed to the program will hang in there. The crowded conditions on the early campouts will usually work themselves out after a few months.

 

[Lisabob]

I would like to think you're right Jeffrey, but that's not the case in my son's troop. He's been with the troop for more than 5 years and on the overwhelming majority of events, they have between 6-12 adults, for a typical ratio of 1 adult for every 2 or 3 boys. They routinely send 10-15 adults to summer camp (and about 25-30 boys). The Venture Patrol usually has a 1:1 or sometimes more than 1:1 ratio of adults: boys.

 

Mind you, nearly all of these adults are registered as either ASMs or committee members, so it isn't a case of just "stray parents." This doesn't stop these registered adults from butting in to the scouts' territory, though. In fact it appears to give them license. One result is that the committee sometimes acts as though THEY have more ownership of the troop, than the boys do.

 

If you don't set the expectations clearly enough, early enough, and if some adults aren't tasked with regularly reinforcing those expectations, then this is what you get.

[Stosh]

The more adult participation in the program, the less the Scout participation. Unless the Scouts are running the show it is, in my estimation, not scouting, it is only a family outing of multiple families.

 

Like I said I have taken on a second ASM to learn to work with the Scouts but only SM and ASM's are on the campouts with the Scouts.

 

With only the SM and an ASM, a well trained program of 3 patrols should be able to go off to summer camp and do very well. After all, that means one has in fact 3-6 leaders (PL's and APL's) present for about 25 scouts. For those camps that require an adult leader for every 10 scouts, that means we would have to have three adults sitting around doing nothing instead of 2. We'd need to buy a bigger coffee pot.

 

Stosh

[evmori]

I agree with Stosh. And I would get a bigger coffee pot regardless! You can never have to much coffee!

[Eagle92]

Jeff,

Unless the adult is teaching something so advanced that only they could teach it, i wouldlet the scouts teach and not the adults. I learned all of my basic scouting skills from youth, as well as some advance stuff like pioneering, canoeing, etc. Having the youth teach #1 is part of the patrol method #2 Keeps the older scouts' skills sharp, and #3 gives a sense of ownership to the older scouts.

 

 

As for coffee, yep you can never have enough. Anyone try the Starbuck VIA that Scouter did a write up on? I personally like my 1 cup brewer I got for myself.

[Eagledad]

>>The more adult participation in the program, the less the Scout participation. Unless the Scouts are running the show it is, in my estimation, not scouting, it is only a family outing of multiple families.

[Frank17]

Eamonn said: "There are times and places for adults to learn about Scouts and Scouting, trying to teach a herd of parents about Scouting when the Scouts are at camp is not the time or the place. I never have and never will be in favor of having too many adults around at camp."

 

I would second this. We are camping this week at Scout Camp. We have 48 scouts & 7 adults (4 of adults are SMs, other 3 are non-registered parents. Because of our size, we are in 2 different camps at he facility: we have all of one and part of another. The other camp we are sharing (about 10 of our boys are there, with 2 of the adults) has 8 scouts & 10 adults! Talk about micromanaged! The camp looks great (clean, organized, all the accessories) but it also looks like a military run camp, with the adults handling everything to their scouting ideal. Our camp is more chaotic, granted, but it passed the Camp inspection with a score of 98% (missing a no fire in tent sign in one of the parent tents) and the boys did all the setup. I'll stick with our camp.