"Modernization" of Scouting - why???

[gwd-scouter]

Nothing has changed so much in Scouting that we as Scout Leaders can't handle. We can still teach anything we want to teach these guys, within the G2SS of course. Want to teach them signaling - go for it. Just because it isn't a requirement anymore doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun for the guys to learn. Primitive camping instead of car camping? Our guys love it!

 

Frankly, I tend to see beyond the requirements in the handbook that the Scout has to do as more than teaching them self-reliance. Who cares really if a guy can tie a half-hitch? Will that ever save his life or make him more self-reliant. It is the occupation of learning the skills that is important and then, even more important, his ability to teach those skills to another Scout. It is at that point that the boy starts to become the man, the helpless fella learns he can help out another.

[desertrat77]

As a scout in the '70s, I read every old scout book prior to 1972 that I could find. At the time, I lamented the fact that I'd missed out on old scouting.

 

I compared the uniforms, advancement program, literature, you name it, against the same from years past, and the '70s stuff was always found wanting.

 

In retrospect, I think what kept scouting alive thru those dark times as the scouters at the unit level who knew and practiced old scouting. Sure, advanced under the '70s program (my camping merit badge from '75 doesn't have a silver border--camping MB was optional then), but the dedicated scouters at the troops, packs, ships, taught us the old skills, and instilled the traditional values of scouting from the past.

 

This really saved scouting during those dark years from '72 - '80, then Green Bar Bill came back and got the BSA back on track. I was an Eagle and ready to go to college when the GBB handbook came out. I'll never forget how happy I was to read it. It was truly a page from the past--it contained everything that made scouting a success prior to the '72 - '80 era.

 

And on to the present. At district level and above, we have many people, well meaning, that serve in positions all the way up to national that don't camp, and view field craft and adventure as something beneath them. Many also view district service, and levels above, as the more important strata of scouting, and the troops in the field exist to support the vast bureaucracy.

 

The great news to me is that unit leaders can still teach scouts the old values and skills. That's where real scouting takes place anyway, it certainly isn't at district or above. District level scouting and above are clerical functions to support the troops (you'd never know it by some of the attitudes though).

 

I think we'll come thru this fine. Particularly if the economy worsens. Scouting may be a nice low cost option for families. And while hiking staves made with space-age polymers may be out of the reach of some, we can always find an old branch lying around that can be formed into a hiking stave.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

My own thoughts:

 

1) The organization of advancement is far better now than it was in January 1968 when I joined. The MB plan sets him up for access

 

2) As my son advanced through T-2-1, I was not happy with concurrent earning and the low level of fieldcraft that was in the handbook as of 2002

 

 

 

 

[Eagle92]

John,

Four words to solve your problem with T-2-1 Adavancement:

 

BRING BACK SKILL AWARDS. (caps for emphasis, not shouting)

 

EDITED: OK another 4 words I just thought of: BRING BACK TIME REQUIREMENTS ( caps for emp)(This message has been edited by eagle92)

[Kudu]

Real Scouting is based on physical distance. That is why it is called "Scouting."

 

No matter what you do to make it "interesting," advancement is boring schoolwork unless it is used a necessary tool for ADVENTURE.

 

That is the opposite of most Troops because the "Modernization" of Scouting allows ANY cupcake to get Eagle Scout on his business resume without EVER walking into the woods with a pack on his back! That is not an exaggeration. There is no Eagle camping requirement that ever requires a Scout to camp any distance from the parking lot.

 

Because of our BSA training that sounds logical and modern, but try to imagine a "Modernization" of Little League that allowed any little couch potato to add "Little League World Series" to his resume without ever playing a single game of baseball.

 

If you want competent First Class Scouts, BRING BACK THE FIRST CLASS JOURNEY AND PATROL CAMPING (caps for shouting):

 

The First Class Journey.

 

On foot with another Second Class Scout, go on a 24-hour Journey of at least 15 miles.

 

Make all the necessary advance preparations, and organize the packing of food and gear.

 

In the course of the journey, you must cook your own meals, at least one of which must include protein.

 

Find a campsite and camp for the night.

 

You must carry out any instructions given by the examiner as to things to be observed on route.

 

Make a log of your journey sufficient to show you have carried out those instructions, and submit it within one week of your return.

 

Oh, and camp your Troop's best Patrols 300 feet apart, Baden-Powell's minimum standard:

 

So it results that Scouts' camps should be small -- not more than one Troop camped together; and even then each Patrol should have its own separate tent at some distance (at least 100 yards) from the others. This latter is with a view to developing the responsibility of the Patrol Leader for his distinct unit.

 

http://inquiry.net/patrol/traditional/100_yards.htm

 

The reason boys hate Scouting is that all of the Patrol Adventure that requires competent outdoor leadership has been removed so that Wood Badge idiots can teach boys the awesome leadership skills they use while sitting at their desk at work under fluorescent lighting.

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

 

[Stosh]

I still stick with the pre-1970 scouting and my boys love it. A couple of my scouts even go so far as to wear the campaign hat/garrison cap and the old all green uniforms. They use the old red/black patrol flags and train under the Green Bar Bill curriculum. Yes the go through the "modern" training, but just to say they did it, but the real training that excites them is the "old stuff". When the historical MB's came out this year, they jumped all over them. I'm not going to change my approach because the boys wouldn't stand for it.

 

Stosh

 

 

[Eagle92]

Kudu,

Maybe it was just me, or maybe how the troop handled it, but i an d others viewed advancement as personal challenges to be met. Yes some of the SAs could be boring and two important ones were classroom type situations, i.e. Citizenship and First Aid come to mind (although FA made us think and use resources we found or had on our trips, at least the way it was taught to use by the older scouts), but we were a hiking and camping troop, and those basic outdoor skills were used every month save December with our hikes and campouts.

 

Now I do like the idea of a First Class trip, but I would modify that from with another 2nd Class Scout, to with a minimum of 4 scouts from your patrol. I was taught you always want a minimum of 4 on any trip, and I think addign patrol would encourge patrol method a little more. Just my $.02 worht.

[BadenP]

Stosh and Kudu

I really understand and agree with where you are coming from. IMHO the real guts of boy scouting were taken out in the 1970's and have never been replaced with anything credible or even interesting to teens since. If we are honest with ourselves we have all been witnessing the gradual demise of the Boy Scout program both in number of boys and the number of troops. While Cubs may be growing the rest of the programs are not and this problem is getting critical. From my own observations the troops that are doing well seem to be the ones who have reintroduced some of the pre 1970's ideas back into their troop programs. The rest of them seem to have been reduced to around 10 scouts in their troops. How can you have a dynamic program with less than 10 boys and hold their interest, and these one patrol troops are becoming more and more common.

 

To me it seems we need to look to the wisdom of the past, BP, Hilcourt, if we want to save what boy scouts is truly all about. The pencil pushers and CSE in National obviously have no clue with their paper unit statistics and watered down program changes. The modernization of scouting to me means revisting what worked in the past and reintroducing it to todays program. If we continue on this same path of the last 30 years boy scouts will continue to rapidly diminish in both size and scope.

[Stosh]

"The rest of them seem to have been reduced to around 10 scouts in their troops. How can you have a dynamic program with less than 10 boys and hold their interest, and these one patrol troops are becoming more and more common."

 

Size isn't the problem, the program is! I have a one patrol troop at the present time and I have no problem "holding their interest."

 

12 boys:

1 TF

7 FC

2 Star

0 Life

2 Eagle

 

Their big push right now is to start on the Signaling MB and then finish out the year with Stalking MB (aka Tracking for the PC crowd) They all have Pathfinding MB already.

 

One of the Eagles is aging out and the other needs his Signaling MB for his bronze palm! He's working on cleaning up a few other MB's for his silver and he's got 18 months to get the gold in! BTW, he's single-handedly running the patrol/"troop" as the JASM, the only ASM that can participate in the boy run program.

 

This is the same boy that a year ago "quit". I've worked with him and we've struggled and had major problems in which he was held back from his EBOR for 6 months, etc. Yet at his ECOH as he tearfully pinned his mentor pin on me said he wasn't ready to quit yet and said he was looking forward to the next meeting.

 

We compete with a mega troop that sucks up 15-20 boys from the three cub packs each year and has very few boys over the age of 15 in the program. Occasionally a few stick it out to Eagle and then quit/age out.

 

Right now, as a patrol, the boys are in the process of making plans for:

 

1) Summer camp

2) National Jamboree

3) Whitewater canoeing/kayaking

4) General campout

5) Service projects

6) Signaling MB

7) Tracking MB

8) Get our TF to FC

 

Individually, some of the boys are interested in bugling (he asked me about where to get the music), training (he asked me where the TLC books were), new tents (how many would we need?), popcorn sales (who's going to head it up and go to the round-table to get the information), just to mention a few of the topics mentioned last night.

 

... all of which they want to finish before school starts this fall.

 

I get worn out just listening to them, and the adults are now in discussion about a tag-team approach to the boys because none of us can keep up alone.

 

The main advantage of the small troop is it is really just a patrol that sees the only limit is the sky. We don't get bogged down in the processes of big troops of multiple patrols. If we get big enough for a second patrol, it's only going to duplicate the situation we currently experience.

 

Stosh

[John-in-KC]

E92,

 

I disagree with you on the # # # # # # # # # # # # ## # # # # Belt Loops. They were a substitute for rigor that was in the earlier editions of the Boy Scout Handbook.

 

When I went for First Class I could make a decent kebab dinner already; I learned how to cook for a group working up 1C cooking.

 

I still remember how hard I had to work as an 11 year old for my mile swim; I also remember how wonderful it was to earn it.

 

Belt Loops were part of the urbanization of Scouting, as were MBs early on instead of quality requirements.

 

I really am beginning to think that when we return to the ideal that the First Class Scout badge is the true mark of better boyhood, we will be on the trail.

 

BTW, I agree with you about time between T and 2 and 2 and 1.

[Engineer61]

If what you teach cannot be applied to your life beyond Scouting, then your lessons are strictly academic.

 

[Eagle92]

Eng,

 

True enough. But just as sports teaches folks life skills beyond the skills needed to play a game, so does Scouting. Not everyone has the skills and abilities to play sports or the desire to play sports. Just as not everyone has the skills and abilities or desire to do scouting. But both do serve a purpose.

[desertrat77]

John, not sure what you mean by the skill award and rigor issue?

 

I know I worked hard for those skill awards back in the day. The only difference I could tell was that you had immediate recognition in the form of that metal loop.

 

It seems, based on my study many years ago, that most of the old school TF - FC skills were stripped from the ranks themselves and reformed under the banner of skill awards.

[sherminator505]

OK. I'll concede that unit leaders have considerable latitude in including traditional Scouting in their programs. I just wish that trainers had the same kind of latitude, given the BSA's emphasis on holding strictly to the syllabus.

[Eagledad]

>>I really am beginning to think that when we return to the ideal that the First Class Scout badge is the true mark of better boyhood, we will be on the trail.