"Modernization" of Scouting - why???

[sherminator505]

I am sometimes troubled by the efforts I see to "modernize" Scouting, to make it more "relevant." I believe this has cost us a signific percentage of our membership over the past 40 years. I think this speaks to the program we are charged with delivering. Scouting promises "the great outdoors" and "pitting man against nature."

 

We should be teaching these boys that they can get along without all of the "creature comforts" of home. We should be teaching them that it is possible to start a fire with two sticks and a boot lace or with the right kind of rock and the side of a pocketknife. We should be teaching these boys that they can go out and, with a little effort, be comfortable in the deep outdoors for a significant amount of time.

 

WHY should we be teaching our Scouts these things? We should do it to build their SELF-RELIANCE. So that they can be productive, independent adults. So that they can navigate through tough patches in life with dignity and bearing. So that they can TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

 

BP created Scouting as a means to effect these ends. "Relevance" wasn't a part of the discussion. The skills that Scouting taught to the English "city boys" of the early 1900's weren't "relevant" to their daily experience either. THAT WAS THE POINT! That's probably why Scouting is rebounding in the UK. Because they didn't forget that.

 

OK. There's my rant. What do y'all think?

[Stosh]

I think you're right. Scouting is what it is because it is not relevant to today's youth, that's what makes it an adventure.

 

When asked what I was going to do when the electrical grid went down and all amenities came to a halt at 12:00 am 1/1/2000 (Y2K), I said was going to get up in the morning go out in the back yard, scrape away the snow, build a fire and put the coffee pot on and get my breakfast going in the Dutch oven.

 

What relevance does scouting have in my life? NOTHING! And I'm getting for some more irrelevance this weekend. Kayak, tent, Dutch oven, all the toys that makes my life an adventure and not a 40-hour a week existence in front of a computer screen in a cubicle. That 40-hours generates enough money to put a roof over my head and food in my stomach and pay for the next adventure on the weekend!

 

 

Once the adventure is gone, it's back to everyday life....

 

Youth of ever age has hungered for adventure. Today they have the choice to seek it in video experiences or pack up and get it in reality experiences. It's a sad day for all when we come to the realization that our youth cannot unplug themselves from their electronic reality long enough to experience real life.

 

 

By the way, I use the methods and training I had 50 years ago in scouting and my boys soak it up like a sponge. I had one boy do the Hillcourt training and the NYLT. He said NYLT was a waste of time and money, but didn't realize it until he had taken the Hillcourt course.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[Austinole]

Why is it either/or. Maybe if you could give me some examples of what's getting pushed out for the sake of "modernizing"...

 

I think all the things we teach and learn from scouting are relevent. We need to be more than just the 9-5 jobs we do to earn money.

[BadenP]

sherm

 

I am right there with you 100%. The continuing deemphasizing of outdoor skills and leadership being replaced with the modern electronic style of scouting is more than mildly disturbing. The fact is the majority of our population today, and especially the youth can't even go one hour without having their blackberry or other device at hand. States are passing laws to ban texting and cell phones while driving because we have become so addicted to these devices that they are in constant use almost 24/7.

 

I heard one woman screaming yesterday that she had to leave work to find her blackberry because she could not do her job without it. We have indeed become a sad society of techno addicts, and scouting seems to be following the trend. I know it may seem funny now but I can see a virtual scouting program in the very near future with the way our society is moving replacing what we know as scouting today.

[SR540Beaver]

I agree, give us some examples. The Scouters I know still teach boys to be self reliant in the outdoors. Now, some of the trappings and delivery methods change with time, but that is normal. I know of one troop that to this day uses BSA wall tents on every campout. Everyone else I know uses modern dome tents. To teach true self reliance, neither would use tents and would teach boys how to build a shelter with whatever they can find on hand. So what changes? Clothing materials, equipment, media style, etc. So what? If I go back and look at my Cub Scout handbooks from the mid 60's, the Cub Scout Promise reads "I promise to do my best to do my duty to God and my country, TO BE SQUARE and to obey the law of the pack". To be square? What kid would understand that in 2010? I did back in 1965. The handbooks were full of references to your "fellows". No kid today would understand what that means. WE also wore the Cub Scout hats with the yellow piping and short bill. What kid would be caught dead in one of those? Scouting like many other things and organizations need to modernize to be relevant to their current audience.

 

I grew up in a day and time where you put a suit on for Sunday morning worship at church and you were reverant and sang hymns. Today, people weat t-shirts, shorts and flip-flops to church, while sipping a Starbucks coffee and listening to a rock band belt out tunes. People flock to tho new style churches while the old style churches are declining. I don't like it.......because it isn't the way we used to do it, but that is the reality of the situation.

[moosetracker]

Hmmm.. a definition of sherminator's modernization & SR540Beaver's ??

 

Beaver - maybe if your new fangled tent had to be plugged in, sherminator would be against it, but I don't think he has a problem with the lighter poles and lighter dryer materials of tents, or the new material that replaces the need for wool blankets or what-not.

 

I think he is probably refering more to the comments of people bringing flat screen TV, and needing to plug anything in unless it is for medical reasons..

 

Do those people ever look up to see the trees, or take their headsets off to hear the birds? Or move out of their campsites to walk down the path and take a swim in the lake?

 

I have not seen the plug in's around our boyscout camps that others have mentioned. Though our troop does do one winter camping that allows them the items, but that is the one & only campout. Otherwise our troop outlaws them. If found the SM will take them, to be returned to your parents when you are picked up.

 

I have seen it with family camping, though.. We still go with tents, while others bring in Bus size campers with wide screen TV's and inside kitchens & livingrooms, Sometimes their generator noise disturbs our camping, Otherwise you rarely see them poke their nose out. I wonder the same thing, when faced with it there to.. We work hard to find campgrounds that will not sandwich us between two huge "modern conviences"...

[shortridge]

The examples I can think of:

 

- There's the new Video Games belt loop in Cubs.

 

- There's the tech pocket on the new shirts.

 

- There was Mazzuca's 2008 statement to USA Today that some consider heresy: "The delivery mechanisms need to be tweaked. We still use a compass to show kids how to get around, but we also teach them how to use GPS. We leave them for a week on a wilderness elk reserve and tell them to leave the place better than they found it. You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character."

[BadenP]

I agree that scouters can still teach the outdoor skills to the boys and should emphasis those skills over the rest, IMHO. I think some problem may arise with the new generation of scoutmasters who may not be as comfortable or knowledgeable with the outdoors and who work in the the technology field. They may feel much more at ease with computers, science, and maybe GPS over outdoor skills of how to be self reliant in the wilderness. There are a couple of troops in my area where I know this is the case, when they go camping it is more car/trailer camping than anything else. It makes me wonder if this truly is the future of scouting? I hope not.

[perdidochas]

The only modernization of Scouting should be teaching GPS along with map and compass, use of LED lights, use of the latest technology (such as water filters/UV sterilizers), etc.

[allenj]

I have always been attracted to the Mythology of Scouting. From reading my Dad's 1920s handbook to the old Boy Scout adventure books of bygone days. Many times over the years I have felt that BSA's move to be more "relevent" has hurt the movement. Never more so then the era in the 1970s Boypower 76 period of Alden Barber. I was a DE then and felt diappointed.

Much of what I saw was the lack of proper training for adult leaders. When I was a scout in the 1950s almost all of our leaders were WWII vets who had spent a lot of time in the field. We had formal formations and saluting.(we even wore leggings with our uniforms)I loved it. Many of our leaders today do not have the outdoor skills and I do not feel we do a good enough job in that area.

I think teaching skills based on new technology is fine ( e.g GPS)

but what about the stars. Cooking hamburger in aluminum foil over charcoal is fine but what about basic firebuilding and cooking from scratch. I know this training all takes time and that is hard to find sometimes nowadays but basics are basis.

 

[sherminator505]

Some example oof the "modernizations" that have bother me include the "revamping" of Scouting that occured in 1972 that was only partially addressed in 1989 (they really needed to do more than get rid of skill awards IMHO), the disappearance of merit badges such as Bugling and Signaling, the movement of Wood Badge away from outdoor training for leaders, etc.

 

My main point is that we have, to a significant extent, forgotten the point of this exercise we call Scouting. It is reflected in our program and in our training, and I believe we don't stress that point nearly enough in either.

[Scoutfish]

Modernization of scouting isn't the problem! Look at what you are doing right now" Sitting at a computer waiting to see what other scouters think about this issue. Something that would have required you to write letters ( by hand) and mail them out, and then wait weeks for the replies.

 

Instead, you can get answers right away and axctually carry on an intelligent conversation in a TIMELY manner. Look at the access, ease, and availability to get scout info, new rules, regulations, file permits, explore, make and confirm plans for outings and camping.

 

As listed before, lighter and better materials, quick dry/ mold resistant materials for tents, clothes, sleeping bags. Fire plugs, waterproof fire starters, lightweight canvas and goretex. Graphite poles and all the rest of the great stuff.

 

NOPE! Modernization isn't the problem at all!

 

PEOPLE and society are the problem! I tech my son to say "Yes sir" and "No ma'am"/ Thanks you and please. You'd think we were talking an alien language sometimes. Things like courtesy and manners are long gone and replaced by "It's all about me and what I want!"

 

Nobody cares about other people or bother to ever try to see anything from the other person's point of view.

 

Everybody wants instant gratification and with no effort involved.

 

So, at least the way I see it, updating and modernizing scouting to utilize what are no doubt, better equipment is not an issue. But cghanging the way we go camping, what you do while camping , and how many butlers you use to carry your equipments, earn your badges for you, etc.....THAT IS WHAT IS WRONG!

 

 

Incidentally, the video game belt loop is what you make it. After I read the requirements for it, I discoverd that he actually will make a stronger effort to spend less time on his playstation and more time doing other activities because...(this is the best part) ..the requirements in the (A&S) book say so! Apparently, there is no arguing with BSA! LOL!

[Kudu]

sherminator505 writes:

 

We should do it to build their SELF-RELIANCE...So that they can TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES.

 

Actually, "the ability of boys to do things for themselves" is one of the mandated "aims" required of our corporation in return for its lucrative monopoly on Scouting in the United States.

 

Note that "Scoutcraft" is also an aim (not a mere "method"), and that the BSA is required to use the methods that were in common use on June 15, 1916. That specific date indicates that the Congressional Charter was drafted specifically to head-off making Scouting "modern" or "relevant:"

 

Sec. 30902. Purposes

 

The purposes of the corporation are to promote, through organization, and cooperation with other agencies, the ability of boys to do things for themselves and others, to train them in scoutcraft, and to teach them patriotism, courage, self-reliance, and kindred virtues, using the methods that were in common use by boy scouts on June 15, 1916.

 

Historically, leadership theory (AKA post-1972 Wood Badge) has been at war with Scoutcraft since its introduction in 1965, the year of Hillcourt's retirement. Scoutcraft is based on self-reliance, but "leadership" is centered on "group" theory. Hence Wood Badge replaces the traditional backwoodsman heroes of Scouting with Corporate CEOs:

 

You can teach a kid about character and leadership using aerospace and computers. The secret is to get them side by side with adults of character.

 

We run the risk of becoming irrelevant if we don't adapt to things that attract kids today... We recognize the evolving science of leadership. We've had CEOs on our board say they want to send their people to Wood Badge, our adult leader training program, because we use state-of-the-art techniques (Chief Scout Executive Mazzuca)

 

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2008-07-20-boy-scouts-advice_N.htm

 

The key terms to look for are in breaking the Congressional Charter are Character and Leadership

 

In December 1965, Chief Scout Executive Joseph Brunton Jr. received a "blueprint for action", the White Stag Report, from John Larson. It stated that offering leadership development to youth was a unique opportunity for Scouting to provide a practical benefit to youth and would add substantial support to Scouting's character development goals. It recommended that Wood Badge should be used to experiment with the leadership development principles of White Stag.

 

The National Council leadership approved adapting the White Stag leadership competencies for nationwide use. Dr. John W. Larson, by now Director of Boy Scout Leader Training for the National Council, adapted the White Stag leadership development competencies and wrote the first syllabus for the adult Wood Badge program. Shifting from teaching primarily Scoutcraft skills to leadership competencies was a paradigm shift, changing the assumptions, concepts, practices, and values underlying how adults were trained in the skills of Scouting.

 

Some members were very resistant to the idea of changing the focus of Wood Badge from training leaders in Scout craft to leadership skills. Among them was Bill Hillcourt, who had been the first United States Wood Badge Course Director in 1948. Although he had officially retired on August 1, 1965, his opinion was still sought after and respected.

 

Larson later reported, " He fought us all the way... He had a vested interest in what had been and resisted every change. I just told him to settle down, everything was going to be all right." Hillcourt presented an alternative to Larson's plan to incorporate leadership into Wood Badge. Chief Scout Brunton asked Larson to look at Hillcourt's plan, and Larson reported back that it was the same stuff, just reordered and rewritten. Larson's plan for Wood Badge was approved and he moved ahead to begin testing the proposed changes. The program was designed and written by Bnthy, Perin, and Larson.

 

The National Council selected the training of Scoutmasters in Wood Badge as the first area of national application of the White Stag Leadership Development design. The application was designed by Bnthy, Perin and Larson.

 

http://www.whitestag.org/history/history.html

 

Note the same "Leadership and Character" theme in Chief Scout Executive Mazzuca's media blitz promoting his 2010 goal of recruiting 100,000 boys who hate camping:

 

Camping is not necessarily a big thing with them, as a matter of fact in some cases it is not big at all. So we need to kind of think about, is it more important that we reach that child with the kind of things we have for children and we have for families in character development and leadership skill growth and all of those things? Or is it more important that we get them in a tent next week? And so I think the answer to that is fairly obvious to us.

 

...when we say 'we want to take your twelve-year-old son but you can't come' we're making a mistake there. We have to engage an entire family... For example one of our pilot programs over the last recent years has been Scouting and soccer...

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3032619/#29491940

 

Yours at 300 feet,

 

Kudu

 

 

[prairie]

RE: "Modernization" of Scouting - why???

 

Because new leadership is afraid they will be called to task if they don't trot out something new and improved, to avoid the perception of going backwards.

 

I know if I was "king" the changes would have some ready to tar and feather me, or worse, though I believe I would be safe in the Green Bar camp.

[Eagle92]

My thoughts.

 

There is a time and a place for tech. For example. I love my MSR whisperlite stove. I think it's awesome. BUT I know how to build a fire, cook over a fire, and have fun in the form of a campfire program. Can't really do skits in front of a stove. BUT when there is a burn ban, or there is nothing but wet wood, the stove is the way to go. Should scouts know how to use a stove, absolutely. BUT they also need to know how to make tinder, kindling, and fuel for a wood fire.

 

Another example, I like my weather radio, esp after I and my packed bugged out of a campout b/c rumors were flying about bad weather approaching, hence the reason I got it. But I try to keep it on only when concerns of weather are about. otherwise it's a PITA as it is loud. But knowing the weathr forcast before hand, adn what to look for help tremendously with out the use of the radio.

 

I really don't like cell phones. But some of them do have internet capabilities and you can surf the net for weather info when needed. Also there are GPS apps. And finally when there is an emergency, you can call for help if ya got a signal.

 

Like I said their is a time and a place for tech. Gameboys, ipods, etc. the time is at home.