Water Safety Fundamentals

[Engineer61]

After what I learned tonight, I am amazed that BSA does not take water safety more seriously.

 

One would think that the prerequisite for Canoeing, Rafting, or any open water swimming (lake, ocean, stream) would be the completion of the Swimming Merit Badge.

 

Not so....my Scout was permitted to work on his Canoeing MB without regard to the fact of the Scout's swimming ability.

 

"They were wearing life jackets" was the excuse.

 

Sorry, folks, life jackets fail all the time.

 

Furious argument to ensue with my wife, no doubt.

 

[WAKWIB]

Most of the Scouts in our area earn the boating badges at summer camp. Swimming and Lifesaving merit badges are mandatory prerequisites for any boating badges to be taken at camp. I always assumed having Swimming and Lifesaving was mandatory for participation in boating badges in any situation.

[OldGreyEagle]

these are the first 3 requirements for the swimmig merit badge:

 

1.Show that you know first aid for injuries or illnesses that co-occur while canoeing, including hypothermia, heat reactions, dehydration, insect stings, tick bites, and blisters.

 

2.Do the following:

a. Identify the conditions that must exist before performing CPR on a person. Explain how such conditions are recognized.

b. Demonstrate the proper technique for performing CPR using a training device approved by your counselor.

 

3.Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete the BSA swimmer test: Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth. Level off and swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be completed in one swim without stops and must include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating.

 

SO, while its not the Swimming merit badge, its not without regard to the fact of the scout's swimming ability either

[evmori]

My esteemed colleague OGE meant to say those are the 1st three requirements of the canoeing merit badge.

 

The answer you got about life jackets was not the correct one. Yes a boy must be able to swim to take any boating merit badge. The BSA takes water safety very seriously.

[Eagle92]

BSA does indeed take water safety seriously, in fact we have a history of promoting swimming safety going back to its founding.

 

grant you swimming MB is not required for any aquatic MB except Lifesaving, you must have passed a swimmer's test, requirement 3 that OGE posted, before doing any of the water based stuff.

 

 

A question: was this at a summer camp or at a troop function?

 

Summer camps must have a BSA certified Aquatics Director. These guys go through a weeklong super intense course that is the toughest course at National Camping School ( yes tougher than my beloved COPE Director course). AT the course they master, if they haven't already, all of the aquatic MBs skills, and gain the credentials to certify people as BSA Lifeguards. They can also certify folks in the two new BSA aquatics instructor courses. As a former YMCA Lifeguard Instructor, I can tell you that anyone who is a BSA Aquatics Instructor has more KSAs than YMCA and ARC Lifeguard Instructors. In fact new BSA Lifeguard program mirrors ARC, esp. since ARC rewrote the program for us ( no comment on that). All that said if this occured at camp, some serious concerns are raised, and I would have a chat with the SM who in turn should have a chat with the Camp Director, as they should know better.

 

Now if this occurred with a troop, then I would discuss this with the SM. This is violating G2SS policies, and Safety Afloat regulations. If memory serves, only time a beginner or non-swimmer classified scout can get in a boat is in a row boat with a swimmer, or any watercraft with a certified lifeguard form any accredited agency. Again if memory serves, been a while since I was a BSA Lifeguard and haven't had to deal with aquatics in along time.(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[mbrownkc7]

You and your wife have a right to be concerned but I wouldn't be. As you can see in the previous posts, the boys swimming abilities should be reviewed during the merit badge.

 

But my question is this. If you and your wife are so concerned about this, why did you let your boy participate? Just because everyone else was doing it is not a good reason. If you have a problem with part of the program being offered by your son's troop, council, or even the BSA, explain your concerns and hold him out. Don't wait for the "Big Man" to do it for you.

 

Again, you have every right to be concerned about your child safety. My point is if you have a concern you shouldn't wait for someone else to take care of it. I believe that a 100 years of experience has proven that BSA does a good job protecting our youth.

 

Good Luck.

[perdidochas]

Life jackets fail all the time?

I can't recall hearing of a drowning (other than white water) of someone in a life jacket.

[perdidochas]

Here are the swimming requirements before starting the in-water parts of the Canoeing merit badge:

 

3. Before doing the following requirements, successfully complete the BSA swimmer test: Jump feetfirst into water over the head in depth. Level off and swim 75 yards in a strong manner using one or more of the following strokes: sidestroke, breaststroke, trudgen, or crawl; then swim 25 yards using an easy, resting backstroke. The 100 yards must be completed in one swim without stops and must include at least one sharp turn. After completing the swim, rest by floating.

[Brian85]

Lifejackets usually fall under the "10 Percent" rule, i.e. you must be 10 percent smarter than the equipment you are operating for it to be safe.

What are there 5 classes of life jackets? Type I, safest, bulky, off-shore type; II in-shore, less bulky than I, in-shore, orange horse collar type; III ski-vest type, called a "flotation aid", most comfort for extended wear; IV throwable type, life ring and floating seat; V called special-use, usually air-inflated, comfartable and convienent, only USCG-approved when worn continuously.

Someone more knowledgeable than me can ring in on this one...Aren't each merit badge stand-alone programs? Swimming MB is not a pre-req for Lifesaving, Personal Fitness is not a pre-req for Backpacking, etc.

[Eagle92]

Brian

You are correct, Swimming MB is no longer required for Lifesaving MB. Show's how long I've taught that one.

 

Now Emergency Prep still requires First Aid MB, 1. Earn the First Aid Merit Badge.. I remember back in the day not being able to take Swimming b/c of not passing the swim test. Rescheduled classes so that I took EP and First Aid back to back. Counselor joked that he couldn't sign me off on EP until I passed my FA test the next period.

[Engineer61]

"If you and your wife are so concerned about this, why did you let your boy participate? Just because everyone else was doing it is not a good reason. If you have a problem with part of the program being offered by your son's troop, council, or even the BSA, explain your concerns and hold him out. Don't wait for the "Big Man" to do it for you. "

 

I totally agree...

 

1) I personally was unaware that the canoeing was taking place, or I would have tried to kill it on the spot. (However my Scout is my step-son, so my input is limited.)

 

2) My wife tends to be a little too "pro-Scouting" and believes that everything there is perfect with nothing to worry about...ever.

 

The function in question was a troop function at a site that is frequently used by the local troops (working ranch).

 

 

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

I go back to my "Qualified Supervision" piece from da other thread, eh? A Qualified canoe instructor should make these calls. If yeh aren't one of those, you should trust and listen to da fellow who is.

 

On a closed, flatwater pond like da ranch you're talkin' about, with enough skilled paddlers and capable folks about, I'd think you could accommodate a non-swimmer safely and easily. BSA allows that, eh? Da non-swimmer just has to be in a canoe with someone who has lifesaving training.

 

Now, if you're talkin' about a fast-moving Class II+ river, then there's really no way yeh can have a non-swimmer along. PFDs don't help much, and can be ripped off by strainers and current, da lifesaving-trained person can easily be washed away from da struggling non-swimmer, and other folks might not be able to respond as quickly as needed.

 

So it just depends, eh? That's why da first point of Safety Afloat is to get qualified supervision to make these kinds of judgment calls.

 

Me personally, as a long-time ACA canoe specialist and furry flat-tailed water rodent, I wouldn't be at all concerned about da former case. With a bunch of boats about, a PFD on, and a lifeguard within 10 feet yeh literally have rescue overkill available to help the lad. No matter what happens, help is available within seconds. That to my mind is da perfect environment for improving the confidence and comfort of a young lad with water activities. Honestly, it's safer than your son being in da shallow end of a public pool.

 

So perhaps Mrs. Engineer61 may be right on this, eh? You might be playin' momma bear when your cub really is growin' up enough not to need it.

 

Beavah(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Engineer61]

Well, I pretty much disagree with your line of thought Beavah. Not unusual...

 

Is it "growing up" if you end in the bottom of the pond?

 

When I was growing up, you didn't get in ANY boat until you could swim jacket.

 

Seems like a pretty reasonable rule to me.

[ScoutNut]

You stated that this was a Troop function, and that you had no idea your step-son was doing the canoeing merit badge?

 

Were you at the event? If you attended, how was it that you had no idea of what was going on?

 

If you were not at the event, perhaps the information you received was a bit over simplified, or confused. To assume that the entire BSA National organization does not take water safety seriously because of (possibly incorrect) information about one Troop's single event is extreme overkill in my opinion.

 

Especially because you obviously did not have any idea of what the requirements were for the Canoeing MB.

 

In order to earn the Canoeing MB there MUST be a registered Canoeing MB instructor there, on site. There must also be someone who is trained in Safety Afloat, and someone who is trained in First Aid and CPR.

 

Requirements for ALL merit badges MUST be completed AS WRITTEN.

 

As others have posted, requirement #3 for the Canoeing MB is "Before doing the following requirements, SUCCESSFULLY complete the BSA swimmer test". This means that the Scout must be able to swim in order to complete the Canoeing MB.

 

Requirements #4 is "Discuss the following:

1. The BSA Safety Afloat policy. Tell how it applies to canoeing activities.

2. The most common weather and water-related hazards encountered while canoeing and how to deal safely with each one."

 

As you can tell, BSA does indeed take water safety seriously.

 

Perhaps it is that your son's TROOP LEADERS do not, or more likely, there was a misunderstanding on your part about what the boys were actually doing.

 

If it WAS the Troop, your discussion with your wife might be of better use if it was spent discussing finding a new Troop, one that follows BSA rules, for your step-son to join.

 

[Eagle92]

Eng,

Quick question, what is your son's swimming capability? Can he pass the 75 yards strong forward stroke, 25 yards backstroke, and float? that is the minimum standard, and it is there for a reason.

 

And in all my years in Scouitng and dealing with water activities, the only times I've ever made a rescue or seen a rescue was during swim tests. thankfully I've never made a rescue during a boating activity, other than the practice ones needed to learn the skills to do it as required by the MBs and/or trips I've been on.

 

BSA does take aquatics safety very seriously.

 

Edited: They are so serious about aquatics safety, that you take a swim test every year, even BSA Lifeguards (This message has been edited by Eagle92)