Repercussions

[Basementdweller]

Thx for all the responses.

 

I have emailed the DE and SE asking an accounting of FOS dollars for last year. I doubt I will see anything but a guy can try. I also wonder about the honesty of what I will see.

 

I like the Dollar donation for FOS with attached letter.

 

I am growing very disillusioned at what I am seeing. Corruption is the only thing I can equate it too. The new scout office building just really ticks me off, leaky pools and roofs at the camps and your spending money at the architects for a ritzy new building to go to work in. Signing over rights to the camps to conservation organizations.

 

 

I could go on and on about SE SUV's and camp lakes getting drained. DE vacations and Scout camps getting sold.

 

The Program for summer resident camp is TERRIBLE both the Pack and the Troop leave council to attend camp. The DE has asked why and I have told him with out mincing words.

 

Another question

 

So what services do you expect from council????? Maybe my expectations are out of line

 

I laughed at the last roundtable when they said we would have to attend a Council camp for free advancement. Please, $30 bucks worth of patches for $50 more per scout and a terrible program.

 

Not sign my tour permit????? I will add a few bucks to the cost of the outing and get the pack and troop its own insurance.

 

Not sign my application for fund raising????? Ok so what is the penalty. a nasty letter.

 

Not accepting my applications???? ok The troop and Pack will no longer exist

[AlamanceScouter]

You need to start contacting the executive board of the council and the region (assuming there is one for the region). In my novice opinion the kids are not getting the program they deserve if the Council is not doing its part.

[AlamanceScouter]

Here is another idea....contact the FOS chair and ask him/her to account for where the funds go. I was our district's FOS chair a couple of years ago.....when I had questions from folks I found the answers. The last thing I needed was people grumbling about me not be honest regarding a civic organization I was raising money for. I was also pretty up front that a huge portion of the money raised goes to salaries and benefits of the professionals. I guess we are lucky in that most of our Scouters seem to think our pro's earn their living.

[rdclements]

A few years ago in my council, there was a very public scandal about some of the pros exaggerating membership numbers - that is a whole other topic. When the council exec was let go, the local media reported his salary. Once that number was out, I heard from a number of folks who decided to keep their future FOS contributions for more unit-focused purposes.

[Lisabob]

If you want to know the salaries of the top couple folks in your council, I believe that info is on the (public) tax records. A couple of years ago somebody posted instructions to find those online. I don't recall how to do it, but I checked my council's record at the time.

 

What I do recall is that, while the SE made a fair bit of money, my DE was only making about $40K. And probably working 60-70 hours a week. (Of course, we had a great DE who nobody could accuse of not providing service!) If memory serves, our current DE makes under $30K and the demands placed on her by her supervisors when she took the job were ridiculously high. We volunteers were shaking our heads, not at our DE, but at her delusional bosses.

 

Having watched that unfold for a time leads me to think that some of the things you mention, basementdweller, are out of the control of your DE.

 

It might be worth asking the DE and/or your District Commissioner to that "friendly cup of coffee" meeting we end up referencing on this site from time to time. Tell him or her what things seem to look like from your vantage point, and ask him or her to help you see how things look from their position. It may be that some of the complaints you list are things where somebody else is pulling the strings and you, your DE, and your District staff can make common cause. Or, it may be they're all awful. But don't jump to that conclusion without being sure it is true.

 

 

[Basementdweller]

Had the previous DE change our troop to a crew one year. He registered an entire grade at local middle school as a crew too.

 

I am not blaming the new DE for anything.

 

 

I don't believe in the council or my district's ability to manage money or provide me with any program help at all.

 

 

Services they provide me, a conduit to register my boys with national. that is about it.

 

I purchase my program books, training manuals, patchs and such from the national scout shop.

 

The good DE's are underpaid, but I have yet to meet one.

 

Far as my strings being pulled

 

First hand knowledge of the terrible conditions of the camp.

 

First hand knowledge of the poor program.

 

First hand knowledge of the membership records being altered.

 

First hand knowledge of the council service center.

 

First hand knowledge of the lake being drained.

 

on and on(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[Lisabob]

Far as my strings being pulled

 

First hand knowledge of the terrible conditions of the camp.

 

First hand knowledge of the poor program.

 

First hand knowledge of the membership records being altered.

 

First hand knowledge of the council service center.

 

First hand knowledge of the lake being drained.

 

---------

 

Basement - I am not saying you don't know these things, or that they aren't true. I am saying, they may not be under the control of a DE. In fact, if you have even a mediocre DE right now (boy the last one sounds like a piece of work - hope the current one is better!) then your current DE and your district Volunteer staff (District Commissioner and District Chair especially) may actually AGREE with you on some of these things, but lack the power to make the changes you want to see.

 

If that's the case, then having the vocal support of unit leaders to target specific changes might benefit you, the DE, and the district. Then the DE can go to their supervisors and say "look what the unit leaders are saying...we need to act on this." The District Chair can use this pressure to start appointing new people to head up district committees (like the program committee, or training committee, or whatever) who will actually DO something. Mind you, you'll probably be asked to serve if you speak up.

 

That's what I meant by making common cause. I can tell you that it does work sometimes, because I've done it, too.

 

 

 

[GKlose]

I'm terribly conflicted -- this spring, the same time that our district was making an all-units blitz on FoS, the council executive board was making a decision to "realign districts." This biggest change in this realignment was to take our district and split it in half. Two municipalities moving east to an existing district and two municipalities moving west to an existing district. From there, the experiences diverge. In my new district, they followed the spirit of the realignment, where the district committee was completely reformed. The other guys, however, have entered into a nightmare, with all sorts of proclamations delivered to them, such as "we'll let you know what positions you can fill," and "maybe you should sit out a year and see how a good district runs things". So, I'm conflicted, and I can't help but think that it will affect FoS donations overall.

 

I guess the point I'd like to make is that it matters. How we act as volunteers, how the professionals act, how the office staff acts. It matters. To parents, to volunteers, to communities. It all matters, and it relates to the good will one feels when they are making out the check to FoS.

 

Guy

[moosetracker]

Lisabob,

 

I don't think Basementdweller is looking at holding back FOS due to the district, (although I think he had a few stories about them, like not organizing a Pinewood derby and tripping up anyone outside the district level volunteers who attempted to do so for the district.)

 

But I don't think the district is the main problem. Maybe lack of bringing in FOS funds hurts the DE performance ratings, but at least in my district when they solicited for FOS they always stated the Funds mainly went to the camps, and then some to the Council staff. Therefore withholding FOS to send the Council a message about their own performance, and their lack of using the money to improve the conditions of the camps, seems appropriate.

 

When I sent in only $1.00 to repay the fee of the two boys summer camp. It seemed appropriate since the money mainly went to the camps funding. The little to the council also approriate, since all they needed to do was apologize. I don't know if they feared it opened door to being sued or what. But the whole thing would have been dropped with an appology to my son.. Seemed a simple request to me. So their loss of funds was also appropriate. At the time we started this though, our DE was wonderful. I had no complaints against him at all. If the FOS went to him and our district, that probably would not have been where I would have recouped the funds.

[BadenP]

Every council is required annually to issue a total accountability of what money/assets came in and where it is was spent or invested,in detail. This report is to be made available to any interested party. If your council is not doing that then they are violation of National policy. That being said there are those certain SE's who fudge the figures, or hide some salaries under things like LFL or other similiar program, or report the money in an account it never went to. Creative bookeeping is all too common in some councils.

 

So for example if your council shows $200,000 went to improving the camps and you don't see those improvements at your camps you can demand your council explain in detail what was done with that money. You do not have to be a COR just someone who contributed to FOS. Now if you suspect financial games are being played get as many COR's as possible to go to the next meeting of the executive board and have them fight the battle for you. This happened at one council I was with and the COR's (10 of them) wrote a letter to regional concerning what they suspected, an investigation was done by regional and the SE was fired, not only from the council but from the scouting profession as well. The council president and most of the board members were also forced to resign. So you all have the power to affect real change in your council, especially if you work as a cohesive group and follow the procedures already in place. I tell you that council has never been so well organized, smooth running and as financially sound as it is today.

[shortridge]

BadenP: Can you tell us what source folks can cite to ask for that accounting?

 

Lisabob and others: You can get a council's IRS Form 990s, an informational tax form, for free at guidestar.org. You'll have to create a (free) account to view the PDFs.

[BadenP]

short

 

As a former DE we were told about this requirement, every council has this mandate from National and the annual council report is supposed to contain this information. Your COR should be able to inquire for you as a voting member of the executive board, however this information should be and is supposed to be available to any interested party. "There are never to be any secret funds or accounts of any kind at any council. All council financial information is to be open for public examination.", from National NEI training 1990.

[Basementdweller]

Back to the original question......

 

There is no repercussions from what I am reading.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

If you're trying to find out where YOUR $25 went, I think you're tilting at windmills. The answer is going to be that it's going where ever you wanted it to go. You want your money to go to the camp scholarship fund? No problem. $25 of the scholarship budget will have your name on it. But don't expect that the scholarship budget will be increased by your donation. It will just have your name on it.

 

United Way has been playing this game for years with their "designation" program.

 

Unless you have the money to designate that your contribution goes to something specific -- "the shotguns at summer camp are junk, here's $2,500 to replace them" -- you should consider that your money is going to the general operation of the council.

 

Yes, that includes professional salaries and benefits. Yes, that includes rent and maintenance on office space. Yes, that includes the lease payment on the SE's new car. But it also inclues the power bill at camp. Chemicals and maintenance for the pool. Gas for the camp lawnmower. Salaries for the folks who run the Scout Shop and process membership applications and advancements.

 

Unless you just want to frustrate yourself, you need to look at the overall operation of your council and consider that your money is going toward that operation, good, bad and ugly.

 

A long time ago BSA decided that professionals would run the administrative, organizational and financial stuff and that volunteers would generally run the program. So when you look at part of the BSA program, let's say Cub Scout day camp, generally speaking it is not being subsidized by the council's general fund. Hopefully, it is run by volunteers and should show a small profit for the council. Not a dime of your FOS contribution paid for day camp. What your contribution went toward is the overall Scouting organization which makes it possible for there to be Cub Scouting in general and day camp in particular.

 

If you're not okay with that arrangement, give your money directly to the program you want to support. Ask your camp ranger what he needs that isn't in the budget, buy it and donate it to the camp. Give the money to the neighborhood troop or pack with instructions to help pay for a boy to go to camp. Then you'll know exactly where your money is going.

 

[Basementdweller]

The discussion is whether or not we are going to participate in the FOS and popcorn sale as a Pack or not.

 

 

 

We can fund raise easier and more profitably on our own.