Hazing issue

[dhendron]

Great advice from everyone!

 

I have met with our unit commissioner and district executive. Of course, for my part, my action is related to his Gold award, not the actual incident in terms of direct action related to that since it occurred within the troop, not my crew. However, I will pass that on to the scoutmaster for his consideration.

 

I have a meeting this weekend with my committee chair, so...more later. Thanks again, everyone!

[ScoutNut]

Since this is your "sister" unit, I would talk to the COR, along with the CC. The COR is the bottom line for BOTH units.

 

Just a final note - You have already let the girls in your crew down by passing over this boys sexual misconduct. His assault in the Troop says that this kind of behavior by him will not simply go away with a good talking to. Placating this boy, and his family, should not be your top priority right now.

 

Please, do something to show the youth in your Crew that their safety is important to you.

[SMT224]

I would second the recommendations to take swift & sure action on this Scout. He should be suspended immediately and then likleyexpelled. If you do not, you are putting forth a clear message that his behavior is ok.

 

When I first became Scoutmaster, there was a Scout in the Troop who would pull all kinds of nonsense. I thought I was "given him a break" by just talking to him and believing his assurances that it would never happen again. Each new instance was worse than the last, but he was vigorously defended by his parents and anyone who complained was made to seem the problem, and he ended up seeming the victim. Finally he was caught red-handed vandalizing on a camping trip. He flat out denied doing it, and his parents refused any responsibility. He was expelled, and we paid for the damage out of Troop funds.

 

But once he was gone, it was like the sun came out after a terrible storm. The other Scouts were much more relaxed as it turned out he was an incessant bully - something I learned only after his departure. As I looked back on it, the signs were all there, I just ignored them, hoping he had "learned his lesson", and would "clean up his act". Not!

 

Based on the information in your post, the pattern of your problem Scout sounds very similar to what I experienced -- repeated violations of the Scout law, very aggressive and defensive parents, and concerns raised by other Scouts. Call him out on his actions! Remember, he's not the only Scout in your crew! If he's expelled or quits, so what? He and his parents may be upset, but I bet the other Scouts will be greatly relieved.

[John-in-KC]

!) Yes, the Scout should be suspended from all meetings.

 

2) From the original post, I think it stops there for unit actions.

 

3) Again from the original post, it reads as though there are youth-youth physical attack and perhaps sexual misconduct matters here.

 

4) Given 3 above, call the SE. Today. Make the report. Let the right authorities do further investigating.

 

5) Consequences beyond suspension wait for the SE and/or governmental authorities to do what they need to do.

 

In other words, I'm with Beavah.

[Engineer61]

Under no circumstances can hazing of any kind be tolerated.

 

If I were the parents of the victim, I would ...

 

...immediately file a criminal assault complaint against the attacker.

 

...demand the immediate lifetime expulsion of the attack from BSA (not just this troop).

 

...demand the SM (not a child) hold an attendance-required seminar for all Scouts and Parents on the topic of hazing...any scout who did not attend would not be permitted any further advancement.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[John-in-KC]

Look, folks ...

 

You want to take money from BSA? Threaten a lawsuit. That's going to be the consequence. BSA will cover its chartered partners and its volunteers and support them in legal defense. As Beavah has told us more than once (and I think he has access to the real knowledge), BSA is self insured for the first $1 million of any judgment. That's money that won't go anywhere else in Scouting.

 

If you're at all familiar with the Guide to Safe Scouting and Youth Protection, there are procedures we volunteers follow when an allegation of youth abuse is made:

 

http://scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss01.aspx

 

From the Guide:

 

What should I do if a child tells me that he has been sexually abused?

 

How an adult responds to a child when he tries to disclose abuse can influence the outcome of the child's victimization. By maintaining an apparent calm, the adult can help reassure the child that everything is going to be okay. By not criticizing the child, we counteract any statements the molester made to the victim about the child getting into trouble. Reassure the child that you are concerned about what happened to him and that you would like to get him some help. Allegations by a Scout concerning abuse in the program must be reported to the Scout executive. Since these reports are required, the child should be told that you have to tell the proper authorities but that you will not tell anyone else. It is important that you not tell anyone other than the Scout executive or the child protective services agency about allegations of abuseif the allegations cannot be substantiated, you could be sued for defamation of character.

 

How do I know what my reporting responsibilities are?

 

Every state, the District of Columbia, and the U.S. territories have different reporting requirements. As part of youth protection training, you will receive reporting instructions for your area and for your council. People are often concerned about being sued for reporting child abuse. You are not required to know for certain that a child has been abused. All that the law requires is that you have a reasonable suspicion and are reporting in "good faith." When these requirements are met, all states provide immunity from liability for child abuse reporters.

 

Our duty as volunteers is to REPORT the matter to the SE. He has access to local Child Protective Services, law enforcement, and prosecutors. It's not our job to pursue the investigation, indeed we can corrupt the investigation.

 

Scoutmaster Conference. Indefinitely suspend the accused Scout.

 

Report.

 

Shut the bleep up, and let those who have responsibilities in your states statutes deal with the matter.

[Scoutfish]

I can see the possibility of this thread becoming an arguement over wether it was hazing,or if the instigator meant for things to be as bad as they got.

 

kay, here's the thing to remember: The boy may not have MEANT for it to be as severe as it turned out to be. He may not have been of the mindset that this was hazing or whatever.

 

BUT....The average drunk driver does not think he is too drunk to drive NOR does he mean or intend to cause the damage or death he does when he crashes.

 

The boy may not have meant any harm, but that doesn't matter. Harm was done, actions were innapropriate and rules were broken as well as somebody hurt.

 

It's time to be held accountable.

[E V Augustine]

dhendron,

 

Your most recent post indicates you've taken some action, but from from your statements it appears that you've not taken the notification steps mandated by Youth Protection Training. You are probably aware that YPT became mandatory June 1, 2010. Given this emphasis it would be best if you followed through with all anticipated notifications before the train leaves the station. Those registered leaders present at the incident may have personal exposure due to failure to notify particularly since the acts resulted in an emergency room visit.

 

Although from your account it appears the Scout's parents are not overly excited I would remind you of the adage that revenge is a dish best served cold. Unfortunately I've seen lesser incidents (no physical harm) rise to civil and criminal action initiated by the Scout's parents.

[packsaddle]

Holy Moley! I've never even heard of anything like this. The boys in this unit must be cream puffs by comparison, the worst we've had during a scouting event is maybe some profanity or an illicit magazine. Not even an old-fashioned fist fight. So I think the advice is good and I sincerely hope we'll never need it. Wow!

 

So now I will give thanks for living in Shangrila and enjoying the scouting equivalent of Stepford children in this unit.

[Troop24]

I personally do not think this is hazing. Rather I think this is clearly an example of battery (whether it is sexual or not is best left up to those like Beavah, that practice in the realm of legalese). But I do agree that the SM must do the appropriate thing and report it now, after the fact, to the SE and let the proper authorities handle the outcome.

 

I am not particularly in favor of expulsion, however. Why can't we come up with a process where the Scout/Venturer has a process defined where he can redeem himself and become a better more productive member of the Troop/Crew? Why should we be in the business of excluding or removing anyone from this program when its goals are building better citizens?

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

Troop24,

 

I see what your getting at, and it is a great question, but the answer isn't simple nor is it black and white.

 

I'll give you my answer as to why we sometimes exclude or remove people from certain clubs or programs:

 

We can not make or force anybody to act a certain way. We can not make anybody want to be a certain way or have a certain attitude about a program. The best we can do is try to show or lead by example. We can try to explain why things will work out a certain way and hope the believe us enough to live it out.

 

BUT....When 99% of the group follows the program and embraces it ( as well as a kid wil that is) and commits to a reasonable attitude about it...we cannot allow that to all go to naughyt just for the sake of one individual.

 

We can not let one child ruin the other kids experience in hopes that the one child might suddenly see the light sometime in the furure.

 

Think about any colonies:

 

In the overall picture, the good of the colony is always more important than the 1 ant. Especialy when the 1 ant causes harm to the organazation of the colony and especially when that 1 ant causes physical harm to the other ants.

 

Our job is to teach, provide and mentor in the program in hopes it takes. Not watch somebody challenge the program, deny and avoid the program while destroying the quality of the program for all the other scouts.

 

It sucks, sure does..but that is life!

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

Troop24,

 

I see what your getting at, and it is a great question, but the answer isn't simple nor is it black and white.

 

I'll give you my answer as to why we sometimes exclude or remove people from certain clubs or programs:

 

We can not make or force anybody to act a certain way. We can not make anybody want to be a certain way or have a certain attitude about a program. The best we can do is try to show or lead by example. We can try to explain why things will work out a certain way and hope the believe us enough to live it out.

 

BUT....When 99% of the group follows the program and embraces it ( as well as a kid wil that is) and commits to a reasonable attitude about it...we cannot allow that to all go to naughyt just for the sake of one individual.

 

We can not let one child ruin the other kids experience in hopes that the one child might suddenly see the light sometime in the furure.

 

Think about any colonies:

 

In the overall picture, the good of the colony is always more important than the 1 ant. Especialy when the 1 ant causes harm to the organazation of the colony and especially when that 1 ant causes physical harm to the other ants.

 

Our job is to teach, provide and mentor in the program in hopes it takes. Not watch somebody challenge the program, deny and avoid the program while destroying the quality of the program for all the other scouts.

 

It sucks, sure does..but that is life!

[Beavah]

Why should we be in the business of excluding or removing anyone from this program when its goals are building better citizens?

 

Because sometimes that's how yeh build better citizens.

 

Seriously. Consequences are a necessary ingredient for learning, eh? If the lad doesn't learn that this kind of thing is a big deal now, what kind of citizen are we building? Scoutin' is just a program. Learning this lesson is important for life.

 

More important, da victim and all da other boys in the troop are watching, eh? We have to build them as better citizens too, eh? They have to learn that there are consequences, and that choosing to keep their noses clean and not do stuff like this has rewards. That they're not chumps for believing that sort of thing is wrong and will be punished.

 

Now, if this really is a case of a dingbat teenager, then by responding strongly and reassuring the other boys and parents that yeh take stuff like this seriously, yeh have credibility as adult leaders. Then if yeh decide to let the boy come back to da program under certain conditions they will trust you and believe in you. You might save the lad's scouting career.

 

However, if yeh don't respond strongly, then the other boys and parents won't believe in you, and will act to protect themselves and their kids. Rightly so. That will end the lad's scouting career for sure, as no parents want him near their kids.

 

So like most things, if yeh do the right thing as adults, it's more likely to work out better for everybody.

 

Beavah

 

[Novice_Cubmaster]

Before you expel this 1 boy from the troop, I seriously suggest you find out if "sack tapping" is something other scouts in your troop have been engaging in. You may have a number of scouts who need to re-examine their behavior - and have it watched for a while.

 

NC

[Scoutfish]

I see things differently:

 

Wether or not other scouts particuipate in sack tapping has absolutely nothing to do with this scout. This scout's situation is not about tapping only, but other cases of:

grabbing

repetative trouble

the fact that this scout ( as well as his parents) think they have the final say about all matters of closure involving incidents with others

This scout and his parents again think they are victems

and last but not least; This scout has broken the rules in a big fashion

 

Look at it this way: If I was a cop and either gave somebody a ticket or arrested them for vandalism ( let's say spraypainting) It is not my job or duty to look at all the other people in the neighborhood or city to see if they spray paint too.

 

This scout may not be the only one who is sack tapping, but he is the one who got caught, caused personal injury that also resulted in monetary expenditure, and also thinks he has the right to decide when this turn of events has been settled.

 

When my 9 yead old gets in trouble for taling in school. he might say : "But they were talking too!" But it doesn't mean the teacher will look at my son and say:"Oh, in that case never mind!"

 

Nope, my son still did something he wasn't supposed to do, he got caught and he has to face the consequences for it. Wether or not others were doing it too has no bearing on my son...it just means they may or may not get in trouble too for breaking a rule.