How can you be your own Assistant?

[moosetracker]

I have been told over the years of scouting that only the COR can hold two jobs in a single BSA unit.. They can be COR & committee member.. OK. I can go for that..

 

But going through the District Roster. There are other people taking on more them one job, and the multi-jobs don't make sense..

A person being the Pack Leader and the Asst. Pack Leader.. How do you do that? Hold conversations with yourself during a pack meeting?

 

A person being Committee chair, and ScoutingParent Coordinator and the only Scouting Parent for the entire unit.. Ok the ScoutingParent Coordinator is helping the Committee chair get parents to volunteer to help, by finding them small things to do and getting those things to slowly grow.. And as Scouting Parent Coordinator & the only Scouting Parent enrolled, aren't you basically coordinating yourself?

 

I know sometimes for lack of volunteers people do double up on jobs.. But these combinations just seem like impossible feats!

[bbender]

Not only that, but that guy named "Vacant" is someone I see on a lot of Pack Organization Charts. He (or she, not sure which) must be really really busy. Sometimes I'll see "Vacant" handling multiple jobs like "Treasurer", "Den Leader", "Activities Coordinator", "Assistant Cubmaster" and more, all in one Pack! ;^)

 

Seriously, since our Pack Website is on Soar and generates a Roster from Troopmaster, we have a couple of "dummy" names, like one with the last name of "You Can", first name of "Do This", so that the name appears in the Roster as "You Can, Do This" (in whichever roles are vacant), with contact information running back to the Pack Trainer!

[Scoutfish]

It's easy!

 

All you have to do is remeber thi simple little explanation:

 

Roses are red,

Violets are blue.

I'm schizophrenic,

And so am I!

 

Well, seriously, you know how it is> 20% do the work for the other 80%.

 

Luckily, our pack finally had enough people step up this year so that we were able to fill each position ( pack, leadership, and committe) with an entirely different person instead of the usual when not enough people care to do anything.

 

 

[NJCubScouter]

I assume by Pack Leader you mean Cubmaster. Not only does it make no logical sense for one person to be both Cubmaster and Assistant Cubmaster, it is prohibited by the rules (which I'll get back to in a second) and there isn't even a practical reason to do so. There are some positions that are necessary in order for a unit to be chartered, but as far as I know, NO Assistant positions are on the required list for any unit. (For troops the required positions are SM, CC, at least two MC's and a CR which may be a double for the CC or one of the MC's; Cub Scouts is similar with CM instead of SM, plus every age group of boys (Tiger, Cub or Webelos) must have a separate den leader.)

 

The rules for multiple positions are stated in the current Adult Application, here: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/28-501.pdf (Actually it's no longer completely current on the subject of when YP training must be taken, which changed yesterday, but that's a different page of the application.) If your district roster is produced by computer, I don't understand why it wouldn't kick out charters that have invalid multiple positions such as the ones you describe.

 

Though I notice something odd in the application. It says the CR may be the CC or an MC. In the SAME SENTENCE it says the ScoutParent unit coordinator may multiple as the CR, assistant den leader, assistant Webelos Den Leader and assistant scoutmaster. (I left out positions in Varsity Scouting, Sea Scouting and a position that seems to be an LDS Scouting position.) It doesn't say the SPUC (just made up my own abbreviation, the real code is PC) may also be CC or MC. But if the SPUC may be CR, and the CR may be CC, doesn't that also mean the SPUC may be also be both CR and CC? Does the transitive property apply? Or does the fact that CC is not mentioned mean it was meant to be excluded? Or did nobody really think it through? (That would be my guess.) And why can the SPUC be an assistant scoutmaster but not an assistant cubmaster? (And before you say that an assistant cubmaster needs to give that position his/her undivided attention, I would answer that that is not true because there can be more than one of them, and I'd also say it is at least as important that an assistant Webelos den leader give THAT position his/her undivided attention than an assistant cubmaster, probably more so.)

[shortridge]

Well, if you can be your own grandpa, I'm sure you can be your own assistant!

[ScoutNut]

From Moosetracker - "I have been told over the years of scouting that only the COR can hold two jobs in a single BSA unit." and - "A person being Committee chair, and ScoutingParent Coordinator"

 

 

It USED to be that only the COR could be REGISTERED in 2 different positions in a single unit. Since September 1, 2008, however that has not been true. This is from the BSA Adult Application -

 

"No one may register in more than one position in the same unit, except the chartered organization representative (who can multiple only as the committee chairman (CC) or a committee member (MC)) and the ScoutParent unit coordinator (who may multiple as chartered organization representative (CR), assistant den leader (DA), assistant Webelos den leader (WA), assistant Scoutmaster (SA), assistant Varsity Scout Coach (VA), mate (MT), and Leader of 11-year-old Scouts (10))."

 

The bigger question here is how did these people all show up on your District roster REGISTERED in multiple positions in a single unit? Often people will wear multiple hats in a unit, but they are only actually REGISTERED in a single position. ScoutNet should not let multiple registrations go thru. Is someone at your council offices manipulating volunteer registrations? Or were these people actually registered in multiple UNITS?

 

 

As for the roles of ScoutParent Unit Coordinator, and ScoutParent -

 

A ScoutParent is not an individually registered position. It is simply a dot filled in on the BSA Youth Application designating a parents commitment to be actively involved with their Scout. Most parents simply pass right over this area because they have no idea what it's purpose is.

 

A ScoutParent Unit Coordinator does not coordinate ONLY those parents who fill in the little dot on their Scout's application. A ScoutParent Unit Coordinator is there to help ALL of the parents in their unit.

 

Per BSA, the job of a ScoutParent Unit Coordinator is the following -

 

The ScoutParents unit coordinator welcomes all parents to the unit and keeps them informed by doing the following:

1) Assign parents to help with at least one specific task, assignment, or project annually.

2) Provide an orientation for all parents about how the unit works and the benefits to their family.

3) Keep parents updated on the units program and their childs involvement.

 

 

 

[ScoutNut]

From NJCubScouter - " (Cub Scouts is similar with CM instead of SM, plus every age group of boys (Tiger, Cub or Webelos) must have a separate den leader.)"

 

 

Actually this has not been the case for quite a few years now. Packs only need ONE(1) registered den leader, who can be at any Cub level. This was done to help small Packs who did not have the youth, or adults, to have multiple dens, and ran their program with one combined den of all levels.

[moosetracker]

I wonder how our district is getting away with it? They are on the district roster this way..

 

That also explains why the roster is broken down by Adult Leaders, Youth, and then ScoutParents. I did not understand why these adults were split from the other Adults..

 

Boy does this (who can play what roles get convoluted!!!)

 

[emb021]

Huh.

 

And I thought the problem was the people holding multiple positions at different levels such that it prevented other people from taking on positions. (ex: instead of allowing someone to take a position that would be their main/only position, let instead give that position to someone who already has 2-3 other positions).

[evmori]

A person being the Pack Leader and the Asst. Pack Leader.. How do you do that?

 

My question is why would you do this> There is no necessity except for giving the appearance you are more important than you really are!

[sherminator505]

I was my own assistant - til we fixed it in the recharter packet.

[CalicoPenn]

"A person being the Pack Leader and the Asst. Pack Leader.. How do you do that?"

 

The answer's obvious: Conjoined Twins. Billy Bob - Bob for short, and Joe Bob - Bob for short.

[mpaull]

We have a couple of multiples and I'll ask the Forum's thoughts on them. One person is both Camping Coordinator and Webelos DL, Treasurer is also Tigers DL, Assistant Treasurer is a Bears ADL, and Second Assistant Cubmaster is also Pack Trainer. We continuously strive to "single up" our volunteers, and some years are better than others, but that is how things are looking right now. Ignoring the obvious issues of over-work, does any one see any BSA volunteer policy infractions?

 

With thanks,

 

Mike

[mpaull]

I was my own assistant until I was insubordiante to myself and fired myself. Now it's just me until I apologize and ask to come back.

[moosetracker]

mpaull - go easy on yourself, obviously you are having a mental breakdown!

 

As for your group ups.. Well you would need to only list one on the rechartering register, as that shouldn't be allowed per BSA policy. (I won't say wouldn't as obviously, my Roster proves that they can list you that way)

 

At least they aren't their own assistants, So the doing of the two jobs is feesable. But BSA (for some reason) does not want those in the field (SM,CM,DL,CM..etc.) to be voting committee members.. So you kindof end up with that scenerio being both in the field and on the committee.

 

I guess they the policy is there so those in the field don't out vote those who are just in the committee. I know those in the field would have stronger opinions being that they would have to enforce some of the decisions, but because they have the opinions & they would need to enforce it, I am not sure why giving them the vote is such a bad thing.

 

One of those committee things that baffled me, and are not explained in the (in my opinion less then helpful dribble they offer for Troop Committee Challenge.) Everything they think you should learn is fairly common sense. They leave out the important stuff, Like the relationship between COR, CC & SM/CM.. What is BSA policy, what should be left to SM or patrol council, what should be regulated by committee.. etc.