Charter Organization denying women as assistant Scoutmaster or the option to campout with troop

[perdidochas]

Acco40: I just feel that if a Scout Troop feels it is in the best interest of the Scouts to limit leadership to males let them. I may not agree but please don't jump to a conclusion that that they are teaching or believe that women or inferior to men.

 

 

I don't think many people are disagreeing with the fact that a CO can limit leadership to males. I think we are basically thinking that such a CO/Scout Troop may not be the best one for the OP's son to be in. A Scout and family (like it or not) has to fit into the Troop. I doubt that the OP's son, who is the son of a very capable mother, and family will fit in with a troop that has such views. It's not a matter of right or wrong, but a matter of fit. A relationship with a troop is a longterm one. The wrong choice can make you miserable, and can lead a scout to drop out.

[Eagle92]

Acco,

You mean 20 y.o. ASM? If that's the case, then yep 100% behind ya.

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Controversies such as this can make a Scout drop out as well! But perhaps nwasness handled it better the whole situation better than some of the posters here seem to be able to.

 

Yeese! Such drama! It's simple - the CO has a policy, which they are allowed to under BSA rules, which restricts the inclusion of women in Scouting activities; accept it or find a new troop. This is not the only such troop and doesn't deserve the labels that are being applied to it. Why must some posters always stoop to that level?

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

"What if you went to a troop and they didn't allow a 20 year old, highly qualified in child psychology, camping skills, physical fitness, knot tying, citizenship, etc. skills be a Scoutmaster? Would you walk?"

 

Wouldn't they be following BSA rules that a Scoutmaster needs to be 21 years of age/ How could the CO be faulted for that?

[Adam S]

I have heard of similar rules. A good friend of mine since we were camp staff 20+ years ago wanted to be a leader for his daughters Girl Scout unit and they told him "women only" This was Northern NJ in the past 2 years or so...

[moosetracker]

Yes 21 is required age. But strangly our troop just went through this.

 

Alot of us (me included) wanted a 21 year old very skilled in Leadership, energetic charismatic young man, to be ScoutMaster. He could get anyone to follow him adult and youth alike. Could use a little more organizational skills. But, we had plans to give him a more mature advisor, who could help him organize and make sure the responsibility did not overwhelm him.

 

Problem was we had to kick our current (inadequate) SM out.. COR & CC were against the change, for 2 reasons 1) they did not want to hurt the current SM feelings (they think we could do better too.).. 2) They worried more about the young mans organizational skills, then the rest of us.

 

We felt the not only the youth would respond to him better. The current group of young ASM's between the ages of 18 - 21 and our one FEMALE 18 year old ASM.. Yes you heard me right.. Not in the Venture crew at all, we don't have one.. ASM.. Would respond to him better.

 

So I can't say I would walk.. This is not a blanket statement of "NO.. We will not let him be SM because he is 21, and no 21 year old can be SM". Now, if it were a blanket statement like that..

[moosetracker]

P.S. I revised my earlier statement.. Of they feel women are inferior. To they just feel women our seprate... with cooties.. But you boys have cooties too, so there.

 

Interestingly, I read in the paper yesterday of a Baptist church in our area, that a women just made a complant about. At 16 she was raped by a church member twice her age, and became pregnant.

 

The church made the women stand in front of the congregation and appologize for her sins. The man had to appologize for being unfaithful to his wife, but that is all. No appology for raping an under age girl.

 

Then the congrgation wisked the girl out of state, and kept her confined to some place. They reported the incident to the police as consensual, and the police were unable to locate the under age victim because the church had already gotten rid of the evidence. The man could not be brought to trial because the police could not find the victim.

 

The victim now 27-28 (somewhere in there) is just now with help being able to realize that it was not her fault. She is now asking that the man be brought to trial.

 

The original church with the BSA troop may or may not treat thier women as inferior. They may be a church that believes seperating the two genders is best.. But, can you tell me the church from this new article treats it's women fairly? 1997 is that long ago. From what the article states, this is still the practice of the church.

[Lisabob]

Uh, is this going to become an Issues & Politics thread after all?

[John-in-KC]

Lisa, I agree ... this is moving out of the program world...

[Jeffrey H]

I would not be surpised if the Troop in question is considered of the best Troops in their District or Council regardless of their "no women allowed at Troop campsites after dark" policy. We are assuming that they don't like women, but that's not a fair statement.

 

The Charter Organization has a reason for this policy and they are within the bounds of their BSA Charter to make this decision. I'm thankful for this because the automony that this Troop practices under their BSA Charter is the same automony that all BSA Troops enjoy.

 

The person in question simply needs to find another Troop that approves women on campouts and there are many of them, even in the South. I hope she does not do it to the detriment of her son's experience in Scouting. In other words, pick a Troop that's best for your son not for yourself.

 

 

[Okpik]

What it comes down to is that the BSA is basically a franchise operation that offers its product to the various COs so they can suit their own needs in regards to youth outreach. Now obviously you can't mess around with the program too much after you start running it, a Big Mac still needs to be recognizable as a Big Mac right? So a Boy Scout still must be recognizable as a Boy Scout! But if they want to restrict membership or add new policy in a way that doesn't make them unrecognizable as Boy Scouts... Then they can! It's their branch of the franchise!

 

All that said every CO has their own aims and reasons for employing the Boy Scout program (or Cub Scout, or Venturing, etc!). If those aims and reasons aren't in line with the values and beliefs you want to impart on your child: I say have a frank chat with your son and look someplace else! Heck your current troop being hopefully Friendly, Courteous and Kind folk may even have some recommendations for you!

 

Anyhow it sounds like you're on the right track already and a lot of folks here have given you some solid advice! Good luck and good Scouting to you and your son!

[eolesen]

I get the distinct impression that many of the people horrified to hear of gender rules for leaders haven't spent much time around LDS troops.

 

Not only do the leaders need to be LDS members in good standing, but every one I came across did not allow women to be in leadership positions for a troop. Not that too many non-Mormons were joining LDS troops, but they do make up about a third of the units nationally, so mathematically, it's fairly commonplace.

[gaucho]

eolesen:

 

True women leaders do not camp out with LDS troops, but there are many women leaders who are assistant scoutmasters in LDS troops working with the 11 year old patrol. Also, there are many Scoutmasters of LDS troops who are not LDS at all. They do need to agree to uphold to certain standards of substance use, etc.

 

Just wanting to clarify. But CO's have control over their units in a lot of respects. Venturing can have co-ed units, but they can also be all male and even all female crews. Haven't seen an all female crew, but that would be cool if a CO felt that need for that.

[bacchus]

"Just wanting to clarify. But CO's have control over their units in a lot of respects. Venturing can have co-ed units, but they can also be all male and even all female crews. Haven't seen an all female crew, but that would be cool if a CO felt that need for that."

 

Our council has a couple all-female crews.