The Sabbath and LDS Units

[SMT224]

Is it possible to celebrate God on a Sunday and travel too? I do not believe the two are mutually exclusive.

 

As a Catholic sponsored Troop we often attend Mass on Saturday evening, if there is a Church near our camping spot, or get back on Sunday early enough to go to Sunday Mass. But we can also feel Gods grace after completely packing up camp on a Sunday morning and standing quietly in a circle just before heading out.

 

Yes, family and church time on Sunday is important, but joining together as a Troop can be a celebration of God too.

 

[OldGreyEagle]

Scoutfish, all auto dealers in Pennsylvania are closed on Sunday in observance of the "Blue Law" that no motorized vehicle be sold on Sunday, no matter your "state of faith"

 

Then again in Pennsylvania we hold onto our guns and bibles

 

So, it seems the people of Pennsylvania do not regard Sunday as just another day of the week

[GernBlansten]

In Colorado, they recently rescinded a "blue" law allowing liquor to be sold on Sunday. You know who fought it the most? Small liquor stores. They enjoyed having a day off where all their competition also were closed. The big liquor store lobby was successful on overturning the law. They have minimum wage employees they can staff the stores with. The small mom and pop stores now have to stay open on Sundays just to keep alive.

Liquor sales did not go up. Formerly, customers would plan ahead and buy enough to get them through Sunday. So the small guys who staff their own stores now lost their day off and sell no more liquor per week than they did before.

But it is nice for those of us who like to enjoy an adult beverage watching a game on Sunday and can't seem to plan ahead.

 

Car dealers here are also closed Sunday. Not sure if its a blue law or just a casual agreement. Motorcycle dealers here are closed Sunday and Monday.

[John-in-KC]

Eagle92 wrote in part...

One complaint I've heard is that by having LDS units leave early, it does not promote eucuneicism (sp) with the other scouts when they do the 'Scout's Own" services.

 

I'm not LDS, and I don't like most generic "Scouts' Own" services either. Too many of them end up being anathema to more than one major faith grouping.

 

Talk around the campfire? Sure. Attend anothers' worship service to understand where his culture and faith come from? Been there, done that. Ask me to pray to anothers' Supreme Being? Nope.

 

I can understand where LDS is on this.

[OldGreyEagle]

Seems you can't sell liquor on election day either in Colorado, perhaps a vestigal rule left over from buying votes with a beer and a promise by the politicians that life would change for the better...

 

Seems like those people got a better deal, we still have politicians promise a better life but the other guys at least got a beer

 

But back on track,

 

As a catholic I will attend a Scouts Own, but I also must attend Mass. Back when I took Wood Badge we had a Catholic Scouter who ended up on the committee to put together the Scouts Own for Sunday and he resigned from the group saying he couldn't in good conscience participate in such an endeavor. I volunteered to take his place. People who knew me asked why if the catholic I was replacing had an issue with Scouts Own, why didnt I. I replied I would still be going to Mass and that participating in the Scouts Own was praying with other Scouters, I didnt see anything wrong with that.

 

Sometimes prespective is everything, but then I wouldn't denigrate the guy who quite, we must follow our own "Fonzarelli Code" whatever it is for us(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Eagle92]

John,

I hear ya. Been there, seen that, and I do like how at national events you have different faiths doing their own services at camp.

 

One of the best Scout's Own I ever attended made no mention of God whatsoever. A Scottish troop essentially put on a mock trial in the future where Scouting is banned. The "Scout" on trial didn't live up to the Oath and Law, and was found innocent. Now you are wondering how can you have a Scout's Own without "God?" They took all the religious faiths present and see how their beliefs fit into the Scout Oath and Law, as religion was also banned in the scenario.

 

OGE

 

"EEEEEEHHHHH"

[SR540Beaver]

bacchus - "I understand it gets a bit more difficult to move WB back a day and start with Thursday so people have to take 2 days off from work instead of just 1, but you would probably be surprised at how many would jump at that opportunity."

 

Perhaps, but based on my experience I don't think so. I just finished staffing my third course this past weekend. Our council does two courses a year. The spring course always seems harder to fill than the fall course. I think part of that has to do with the spring course trying to recruit during the Christmas holiday when people are spending their money on things other than training. It is hard enough to convince a person to take a day of vacation on Friday for B, let alone trying to talk them into taking a Thursday and a Friday. I think trying to do a Thursday thru Saturday course in our neck of the woods would prove disasterous for making a course.

 

BTW, we've had a number of LDS participnats and staff members in our course and being there on Sunday has never been an issue. They talk to whoever it is in the LDS church here and explain they are going to WB and are told to go and not be concerned about it.

[Jeffrey H]

I will be attending and IOLS training course in a couple of weeks. The course was changed from a Saturday/Sunday schedule to Friday/Saturday. The reason? We will have a large group of LDS scout leaders participating including one of the Instructors and they want to be back home for Sunday. I'm glad they made that request, because I will enjoy being back home on Sunday with my family in my home church.

 

 

[scouts-a-lot]

Our council does IOLS on Fri - Sun. To be LDS 'friendly' this fall the course will allow the LDS participants (or any others that want) to come out the previous Saturday and they will run through the Sunday part of the program that day. They will then come the following Friday and spend the night and all day Saturday with the other participants going through that part of the program.

 

I am totally good with this approach and I am totally fine accomodating the needs of someone based on faith. The issues I can see is what happens Sunday morning when the dynamic built amongst the patrols is now short several people? What does it also say to the people who have come out for the entire weekend about making exceptions? Some folks are not as understanding as others.

[GernBlansten]

When I did IOLS about 6 years ago, it was Friday night through Sunday noon. At least half of the attendees were LDS. Everyone stayed until Sunday noon. At that point in my scouting, I was not aware of the LDS not scouting on Sundays. It just wasn't an issue. I didn't become aware of it until my first camporee which closed on Saturday and half the units packed up and left.

[scouts-a-lot]

@GernBlansten - None of the LDS units in our district participate in anything we do as a district. Cub or Troop. They are ghost units to most of us.

[Basementdweller]

LDS have their own week at summer camp, there own district and council events. They don't mingle with us common folk. Ghost unit is a great analogy.

 

They are just another scout unit and should be treated no different than any other scout unit.

 

Bacchus, I believe your just Trolling at this point.

[SSScout]

Many different possible accomodations and plans.

Sabbath considerations between the various Christian and non-Christian religions leads to all sorts of variations. At my WB course,(friday,saturday, go-home-sunday late) there were accomodations on saturday morn, saturday night (movie night) and sunday morn. The council also held a go-home-saturday WB course in the fall (arrive wednesday afternoon).

Some Districts in our Council hold LST and IOLS in Sunday start courses (go home Monday late).

At my WB course, on sunday, worship was divided into "Scout's Own" and "particular faith". Catholics went to one area, LDS gathered in another. The most adaptable seemed to be our Muslim WB brothers. I spoke to one, he said he had no problems worshipping in the Scout's Own, said it was a new and interesting time.

[BadenP]

OGE

I agree with what you said in your post, however it might interest you to know that with this current pope that there has been a reversal concerning attending ecumenical services.

 

"A Roman Catholic is to avoid all ceremonies and celebrations of any group or individual religion that is not in unity with the Roman Catholic Church."- Cardinal Levada, Rome-2009.

 

This was brought up at the last Scout Sunday Service, a community ecumenical celebration, where the the local Catholic church's pastor stated they could no longer participate, after 15 years, because the change in church policy, even though he personally disagreed with the policy he was bound by church law. Well I had a long talk with him afterwards and he told me that the Vatican has retaken the position of the pre Vatican II church where a Catholic is now once again supposed to get a priests permission to even attend a wedding or funeral where the ceremony will be held in a church of another religious tradition, and can only attend but are forbidden to participate in the ceremony in any way. The rationale is that a wedding or baptism or confirmation in another faith are not considered valid sacraments. It was also interesting to note that the priest told me that if a catholic violated this policy and someone reported it to the pastor he was obligated to sternly counsel the "offender" explaining the consequences of their action, if their was another violation the persons name would then be submitted to the Bishop to start excommunication proceedings. I wonder how many Catholics even realize that this is the current policy of Rome? So much for the benevolent Catholic Church. Personally, I am glad not to be associated with such a dictatorial organization any more.

 

To me this puts a whole new perspective on the LDS and the Sabbath situation. Does this mean the end to Scouts Own Services?

[OldGreyEagle]

well, I wont worry about it until he speaks "ex cathedra" on the topic