How to explain departure of Scout from Troop

[Engineer61]

A question recently popped up from my Scout....would seem like a good topic for here.

 

One of the boys that crossed over with him dropped scouting after the first meeting last fall. My boy wanted to know why.

 

Unknown to my Scout, the boy dropped because he and his parents are Buddhists from India and could not abide by the Oath/Law, etc. Even my wife did not know this fact, but I work with many people from many different religions and I did confirm it.

 

I am a bit conflicted on how to respond.

 

Thoughts?

 

[CA_Scouter]

But BSA has a Buddhist religious award... what specifically could they not abide by??? Mebbe its a misunderstanding...

 

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I would respond by asking the family to check the PRAY Website and look for the Religious award for Buddhist Scouts called the Sangha Award.

 

I was attended a Buddhist worship service at the National Jamboree in 2001(This message has been edited by OldGreyEagle)

[Beavah]

Yah, it's unclear whether the family just didn't understand da BSA's position relative to Buddhism, or whether their particular views within Buddhism still objected despite da BSA's accommodation.

 

In any event, I don't think that changes the answer to Engineer61's question. I think you tell your son (and any other scouts who ask) the honest truth, eh? Not sure why yeh would do anything else but be honest with kids.

 

"I'm not sure, but I believe because his parents felt that as a Buddhist, he couldn't honestly take the Scout Oath. There are many Buddhist scouts and the scouts welcomes Buddhists, but each family and each person has to decide for themselves whether they believe in or can live up to the Oath. It's brave to be honest with yourself and others about it, even if it means you choose not to join. You should respect him for his bravery and honesty in trying to live up to his ideals, just as he should respect you for having the courage to take and try to live up to the Scout Oath."

 

Beavah

 

[Engineer61]

To clarify...according to the parents, to swear a duty to God under the Oath was forbidden. As such, the entirety of the Oath then became tainted.

 

Thanks for the input Beavah....

[NJCubScouter]

To clarify...according to the parents, to swear a duty to God under the Oath was forbidden. As such, the entirety of the Oath then became tainted.

 

I don't know whether this would help, but someone should point out to the parents that it is NOT an Oath. It's an "Oath or Promise", or at least it was the last time I looked. And the word "swear" appears nowhere in it. The BSA did that specifically so religious groups that do not believe in the swearing of oaths (such as Quakers and I believe the Jehovah's Witnesses, and apparently some Buddhists as well) would not have to do so. They're merely making a commitment. If that doesn't help, then I'm kind of curious as to how thousands (hundreds of thousands? More?) of Buddhists have participated in Scouting over the years.(This message has been edited by njcubscouter)

[NJCubScouter]

Oh, and I wouldn't tell the Scouts anything other than that their friends family decided not to participate in Scouting. It isn't anybody's business.

[evmori]

I am a bit conflicted on how to respond.

 

How about the truth?

[ScoutNut]

It is possible that they were led to believe by the unit that they had to promise to "do their duty" to a Christian god, and could not change the wording, in any way, to reflect their own faith.

 

This happens a lot.

 

 

[ScoutNut]

As to how to respond to your son - I agree with the others, simply tell him the truth.

 

 

[SSScout]

NJCubscouter and Scoutnut have it in an eastern state nutshell. As a Quaker Scout Chaplain and Commissioner, (see "Urban Legends" threads) I have had to disabuse folks on occasion about the "swearing" and the "Christian God" thing.

The Scout Promise is just that. It is not what some of us know as a "judicial oath". It is not "swearing by". Check James 5:12 and Mathew 5:33. Some COs "may" make a requirement of specific declared belief for membership in THEIR units, but it is not BSA's requirement.

I commission Islamic units and find much agreement between their religion and BSA's teachings. Sometimes the Muslim parents express pleasent surprise when the religious requirement is discussed.

I hope someone has approached the family in question here ("a Scout is courteous"), and determined their true reason for leaving Scouting. Change of address? disagreement with a malinformed Scouter? "boring" program? bullying issue? misunderstanding of "Oath" vs "swearing" vs "promise" vs "religion"?

 

Perhaps there is education possible on both sides here.

[John-in-KC]

Kahuna??? Your thoughts???

[studentscout]

When I signed, I just ignored that part because it doesn't apply to someone who is following Buddhism, especially if they are an atheist. The concept of duty to someone else's God is nonsensical, irrational, and just not right if BSA means it to be interpreted as a specific 'God' in the Judeo-Christian-Islamic sense. However, because BSA hasn't singled out Buddhism for 'special treatment' yet, and because BSA would have to be profoundly ignorant NOT to understand this distinction, I conclude that Buddhists are not expected by BSA to make an oath to something they dismiss as myth. As such, that part of the statement carries about as much moral weight as an oath regarding the tooth fairy, that is to say it is, however quaint, irrelevant.

If, however, that part of the statement is intended to be more conceptual than concrete, then the tooth fairy works just fine.

[Crew21_Adv]

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/02-209.pdf

 

Fellow Scouters,

 

Scouting has had a continious partership with Buddhist Temples for nearly 80 years. This is even posted on the Scouting website.

 

From my memory, in Aloha Council and Maui County Council there are plently of Buddhist Temples that are Chartering Organizations with sizable troops.

 

Thoughts? To respond to your Scout. The issue is their choice, the Scout & family have not been excluded. Either the family will join the troop or they will not.

 

To respond to the boy and his family, I would recommend the family talk to the Buddhist leaders about Scouting.

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

[Kahuna]

I'm a little confused by the information given about the family. Obviously, Scouting welcomes Buddhists, and most Buddhists I know would have no trouble with the Scout Oath and Law. However, these folks are saying it is "forbidden." I don't know what lineage of Buddhism they are from, but I am not aware of any that would "forbid" taking an oath of duty to God as such.

 

Having said that, I agree with what Beavah said. Everyone must follow his or her own beliefs and do what they think is right according to their own heart.

 

As to how to explain his leaving, I think the truth is the truth.