Scout Priorities and Responsibilities (Vent)

[perdidochas]

Zippy,

 

School is a priority. But school assignments should be reasonable. A major assignment (that is worth a quarter of the grade) should not be assigned last minute and expected to be turned in very quickly. Now, it would be a different matter if the kid knew that the assignment was coming. I taught at a high school for 5 yrs, and there is no way I would have ever made a spur of the moment assignment like the one the teacher in the OP made.

[perdidochas]

What kind of school is this? I've never heard of a middle school requiring major papers written in a weekend, or lab reports done with a partner to be written at home. I don't think it's reasonable to think a middle schooler can complete a lab report with a schoolmate outside of school. After all, that makes an assumption that the student has a phone or way to meet his classmate. I've never taught in a school where I could assume either.

[Engineer61]

Peri,

 

The fact that EVERY student except for one completed the writing assignment on time, says that the length and complexity of the assignment was reasonable to those students that were able (and/or willing) to put the time in.

 

The lab report was not to be written outside of class with a partner. What was assigned was the pre-lab questions and the preparation of certain materials that were to be brought in for the lab. Each lab partner was to bring in certain items. I have done similar activities myself in middle school.

 

The school in question is nothing more than a public middle school in a school system with a history of achievement. It's the kind of district that people intentionally move in to and teachers want to teach in. The parents highly value education and expect our teachers to teach and our students to learn.

 

The fact is that my wife and I will not tolerate sub-par performance in school by any of our kids because of extra-curricular activities interfering with the completion of school work.

 

Your Eagle might get you in the door.

 

Your Eagle might tip the job in your favor.

 

But if you don't have the education, ten Eagles won't make a difference.

 

(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[perdidochas]

I still think it was unreasonable. In my years of education (25+), I have never been given such a high stakes assignment on such short notice. The only fault I would put on your son, is that he should have done as much work as possible during down time on the campout and when he got home Sunday night. I did homework while on dive trips in college, quite a few times. School is important, but as one of the earlier posters said, what if it was a family trip to visit a sick relative, or say a religious retreat for Confirmation (if you're Catholic)? Would you have felt the same way? A high stakes assignment should be given with a little discretion and warning.

[Engineer61]

"School is important, but as one of the earlier posters said, what if it was a family trip to visit a sick relative, or say a religious retreat for Confirmation (if you're Catholic)? Would you have felt the same way? A high stakes assignment should be given with a little discretion and warning. "

 

As I'd already stated, if the activity is voluntary or avoidable...it's school first...period. We don't vacation during the school year for that very reason.

 

Death in the family or some other health crisis is a bit of a different level. Teachers would extend deadlines for that without issue.

 

Where do you draw the line as a teacher....Scouting might be important to one student and an all-weekend-cartoon marathon might be equally important to another....or an out of town sports tournament.

 

And as I stated earlier, every other student completed the assignment on time...so my Scout should have been able to do the assignment had he not chosen to shirk the responsibility.

 

So is there an implication that Scouts are somehow privileged and the rules do not apply to them?

 

[perdidochas]

The other kids may not have had prior commitments. As I've said, I've had quite a bit of time in education, both as a student, and a few years as a teacher (and as the husband of an assistant principal). I know a bit about the subject. I think the assignment was unreasonable for an assignment that would drop his grade a letter grade for a quarter , even if every other kid did it. I know a bit about averaging and grading, and to cost a student a letter grade for the quarter for a day late assignment is excessive. They are in middle school. They should be learning time management. A last minute major assignment teaches them nothing but "drop everything for school." That does little to really teach about not procrastinating, as they don't really have a choice. It doesn't require them or allow them to intelligently budget their time.

 

If I were you, I would be talking to the teacher. I'm not you, and you have the right to your opinion> Ultimately, it's your kid and you will have to watch the consequences of his choices in his future.

[Engineer61]

Thanks for making a very important point...

 

"Drop everything for..."

 

Depending on your profession...that is exactly how the world works.

 

By and large, priorities are set in the workplace by others. One's ability to adjust to changing priorities is critical.

 

Personally, I wish the schools would pick up the pace a bit...

[Beavah]

Yah, OK, I can't really comment on da educational issues peri raises, though on da surface they seem pretty reasonable to me, and I defer to his expertise.

 

I'm curious about this statement, though:

 

As I'd already stated, if the activity is voluntary or avoidable...it's school first...period.

 

Engineer61, I'm curious how yeh reconcile that with the Scout Oath and Law?

 

Beavah

 

[packsaddle]

I'm still with Engineer61 on this. He does not have to reconcile anything with the scout oath and law because in his family, HIS authority takes priority with respect to the health, education, and well-being of his children.

He made decisions that affect every aspect of his and his family's lives in order to achieve goals that he chose. It is up to him to decide whether or not his son's choices are the best choices. Perdidochas has a different personal perspective and he is entitled to that but Perdidochas does not have any authority in this case over another person's son. Perdidochas can express an opinion based on his limited experience and that is fair enough. Engineer61 is not obligated to 'answer' to any of it.

[Scoutfish]

I'm gonna go with the engineer guy!

 

See, if I stop and put myself into the situation in a more personal way..such as using me for Engineer and my son in place of his... I end up siding with him.

 

Granted, I totally think the teacher blew it as far as the time fram and I also think weekends are taboo for schoolwork as ths is when kids need to be able to relax, recharge and refresh.

 

But as much as I love scouting and love that my son is a Cub Scout...He has other MORE IMPORTANT considerations first:

 

Our den meetings are Mondays at 6 pm. They last an hour. The CO is about 20 mins from my house. 20 mins to get there, 1 to 1 1/2 hours for the meeting depending on how much we flap our lips after the meeting, and another 20 mins to get home.

 

I love it, he loves it and so far, he's good at it.

 

BUT..... If his grades start falling or it interfears with his regular schoolwork, homework, or sleeping ( you know how kids are) then the choice is obvious.

[skeptic]

So, while not knowing from the material presented, I would not be surprised if this assignment piggy backed on other material already completed, and perhaps only required finding additional pieces and putting it together. There is a chance that there had even been a preliminary mention of its coming. I know that in the middle schools in which I have subbed, there often have been a final assignment noted related to a longer term set of related material. Also, it is very common for kids to "waste" considerable class time that could be used for prep for these things. I would wager that the overall "research" time would be 2 hours or less at that grade level, and then a couple more hours of putting it together. So, since it was due on a Tuesday, there was even adequate time with an outing. It would have simply required better time management, as has been noted, and perhaps a dedication to focusing on it immediately on returning home.

 

Whatever the case, this will hopefully be a good learning experience. Engineer, I sincerely hope that your son will realize the error of his way sooner, than later.

 

Just for a note, and I realize that some will say I am adding requirements, but I expect my scouts going for the 3 higher ranks, to be at least "C" students, and not be flunking anything, unless they can prove to me that they have made sincere effort, but just cannot get it. That does happen; but they usually do not have issues with other things at the same time. Obviously, this would not apply to kids with "special" problems. To me, Scout Spirit includes getting at least average grades or better, and "doing their best" in school, not just scouts.

 

[perdidochas]

Scoutfish,

 

I actually made my decision also putting myself in Engineer's shoes. My aggravation with my son would have been based on not bringing the schoolwork on the campout/not working on it Sunday night, but I also would have been aggravated at the teacher. I am going by the assumption that what Engineer wrote was exact. On reflection, it might be that the teacher told them ahead of time that this was coming up, and the student just ignored it (as middle schoolers are apt to do). If that is the case, then, my views change, and I agree totally with Engineer. However, the only real way to answer that is to talk to the teacher about the issue, which I would have done regardless.

[Nike]

When Life Scout has pulled this kind of thing in the past, I have resorted to treating him just like his Cub Scout and Daisy siblings for the remainder of the grading period. Write down all your homework assignments, and I will check them every night. If that doesn't help him show improvement in time management, it continues until I *see* improvement.

 

I know your boy is ADD, so this is one of those life lessons that is going to be really important as he gets older and more independent.

 

Hope you all survive 'til June.

[Engineer61]

"Engineer61, I'm curious how yeh reconcile that with the Scout Oath and Law?"

 

I don't. Because the Oath and Law are not the overriding laws of my family. I am.

 

However, if I had to...I'd start and stop right here...

 

======================================================

 

A Scout is Obedient.

A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them.

 

======================================================

 

Note that Troop is dead last and more notably behind School.

 

My Mom once told me that Parenting is not a Democracy...it is a Benevolent Dictatorship, with her in charge.

[CalicoPenn]

Skeptic,

 

Adding to the requirements? Yeah - there is that as I can't find a reference to any rank advancement that states "Maintain a "C" average at school. But you already know that's adding to the requirements so we don't need to go there.

 

Where we should ge going is you're adding to your responsibilities needlessly, and more importantly, treading on the parent's responsibilities.

 

I don't disagree with anything that Engineer has expressed about school first - I'm just suggesting that there has to be other factors at play. Ultimately, as the parent, it's his responsibility. Now if Engineer would come to me as Scoutmaster and ask me to monitor juniors homework and grades - my answer is a definitive No. See, that's his job and responsibility. If the parent wants to impose some kind of grade-based eligibility standard, I'd be disappointed but I'd also let the parent know that is fine and the lad will be welcome to come to meetings and campouts when the parent is ready to allow him to (I won't play the "let him participate but don't advance him" game with the parents - he either gets to participate as a full participant, including with advancement opportunities, or the parents hold him out of meetings and activities until grades improve to their satisfaction). I'm not there to play carrot and stick games over grades.

 

As Scoutmaster, I don't need to see, nor do I want to see, report cards. Those report cards are between Student, Parents and Teacher. What happens when the next Scoutmaster decides a "C" average isn't good enough - it's got to be a "B" average. What criteria do I use to determine if a Scout is "really trying" in school?