Scout Priorities and Responsibilities (Vent)

[packsaddle]

I'm going to pull my chair up beside Engineer61 and Lisa on this, maybe nolesrule as well.

First, I will note that as the parent, Engineer61 is THE final word on all this. He knows his son better than anyone here or the teachers for that matter. He has a greater personal investment in the future and well-being of his son as well. And he has more authority.

I've been in his shoes with almost exactly the same situation and I offer my encouragement.

 

This semester brought many of the things that have been discussed here to my desk in large quantities. I'm just finishing up a few hundred final grades for students that range from freshmen through working adults seeking graduate degrees.

And, as mentioned, a syllabus usually only has dates for major exams and even those are often flexible. I know of no faculty who assign large homework assignments with little or no time to do it. I'm not sure what was in the mind of the teacher in this case. Which brings me back to the thread.

This thread is about a middle-school student who is learning how to navigate conflicting responsibilities and interests and I've been there and done that with my own ADD young persons in middle-school. This is where the IEP (or equivalent) is very useful. Parent-teacher conferences with regard to the IEP are very useful and I want to emphasize that at these conferences the PARENT is in charge if the IEP is in place and not being followed. I've been in many of these kinds of meetings and once we have the teacher(s) in the room, it is heartening to see how constructive the meeting can be as a result. Everyone wants to find a solution and guess what, we always did.

 

Lisa is dead-on about many freshmen being unprepared for things as they enter. I'll register a couple of exceptions to this: my students in engineering and the sciences are top notch and they seem very well-prepared (they blow the socks off other disciplines). They get their work in on time and they do it well.

 

Engineer61 perhaps has a different perspective from others because I suspect he falls into the engineer category. It IS a different perspective and I have come to greatly admire the straight-forward pragmatism of it, having worked closely with engineers for most of my professional life.

But I keep coming back to the fact that regardless of how WE might do things differently, HE is the final word for his son. And I wish him and his son the best of success.(This message has been edited by packsaddle)

[Engineer61]

Thank you for the insight Packsaddle.

 

I do recall quite clearly that my workload outside of class easily tripled when I went from HS to College...

 

...it was unpleasant for some time.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[JMHawkins]

Well, I certainly haven't been trying to insult Engineer, but I guess we just don't see eye to eye on this subject.

 

But, the thread, like quite a few things in scouting, has given me more insight into my releationship with my own son, so I still count it as time well spent.

 

 

[Engineer61]

Unbelievable!!! But I just knew it would happen again.

 

Scout sandbagged homework again!

 

Last evening, Scout had a science assignment that called for him (and his partner) to complete for a lab today.

 

Scout failed to disclose and went to the weekly meeting instead.

 

So, now he's left his lab partner in the lurch for a grade as well as himself. Labs count as tests, weighted 90%.

 

 

[Lisabob]

Not that unbelievable! While this is in no way intended as advice to let it slide, you also must know that it is not uncommon for teenage boys to blow off their homework and dissemble about having done so. Many people go through that phase. Most live to tell the tale. As a parent of a slightly older teen than yours, I can attest that this is a cause of several of my grey hairs, though.

 

 

[Engineer61]

I actually have two older teens as well (18 and 14)...Scout (12) is the trailer.

 

This is a horse of a different color, since now he's sabotaged a lab partner.

 

[moosetracker]

Yep, the obligation to the lab partner, should swing those that felt the choice of camp out was good, due to obligations to the patrol/troop, to the agreement the scout did wrong this time. If not you just lean towards just scouts over schoolwork regardless of reasons.

 

That said.. And noting that I agree with you scout was wrong.. It seems your child is now in the stage of listening to himself, more then parents.. You can fuss & fume and lecture and punish.. But, in the end you just have to have faith that buried below that teenage (pre-teen??) rebellion the values you instilled in him when he did listen are there somewhere. They will resurface sometime.. (so long as you don't strangle him before they have a chance to)..

 

You say you have two older.. Were you blessed with two angels? Is your third making up for it by being three times worse then the other two?

 

 

[Beavah]

Yah, what moosetracker said. My guess is that your older children were girls?

 

I'm pretty sure I never got involved in my kids' schoolwork on an assignment-by-assignment basis. I expect that would have driven us all nuts. If the lad blows off a lab, seems like da consequences are all natural ones, eh? His friend is mad at him, he gets a worse grade. No need for you to step in to that.

 

The lad is old enough that he's making his own decisions, and you fussin' and fumin' isn't going to be very effective.

 

Lots of times I reckon we as parents care more about being right than about doin' what's right for our kids. I know I fell into that trap occasionally. Just like in Scouting, teens often learn best from their peers and from da school of life, and those lessons get messed up if we hover and lecture and such.

 

I reckon schoolwork becomes important when it's theirs. If it's yours - just somethin' yeh do to keep dad from blowin' a gasket - then there's no reason to do more than the minimum. Of course, makin' dad blow a gasket at least asserts da independence that some teens crave. If dad won't respect yeh enough to manage your own schoolwork, at least he'll be forced to deal with yeh as an independent person when yeh blow him off.

 

Sounds like you're in for a treat, mate. God gives us children to teach us humility, eh?

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[sailingpj]

Moosetracker, you are most definitely right here. He should have called whoever he needed to call and say "Hey, I've got a group assignment that I have to do so I won't be at the meeting tonight."

 

That being said, I can tell you that his lab partner will provide much more stimulation to not do this again than you will. It isn't the most scout like action, but I am not above making partners in group projects feel really guilty that they didn't help with the project. That is a lot more incentive to do the work next time than you can ever provide.

[moosetracker]

Well.. I did not say a couple of girls.. I said angels..

 

Beside having to defend my gender, most parents who have raised both genders will tell you a teenage girl is much more difficult to live with at this stage then a teenage boy..

[Engineer61]

My oldest is a girl, middle is a boy. So I have all the requisite experiences to work from.

 

Oldest and Youngest are practically identical in demeanor. No, that's not a positive statement. Good news is the girl is 18 and starting to show glimpses of progress.

 

The middle is the saint...does what he supposed to with little or no input from anyone.

 

I'm pretty much to my fed-up line with this nonsense. Considering overseas military boarding school options ...

[CalicoPenn]

To paraphrase an old saying "Sandbag me once, shame on you. Sandbag me twice, shame on me". I would have thought that after the first act of sandbaggery, one of the parents might insist that the lad drag out his homework every night to show what he needed to do and prove he'd done it, for at least a few weeks to rebuild some trust. But then, maybe that's just me.

 

I hate to sound like a broken record but once again, time management seems to be the issue. You don't give any details as to what the pre-lab assignment was. Most pre-lab assignments are reading assignments, with perhaps a short pre-lab writing assignment. At the middle school level, it shouldn't require hours of work. I'd sure be wondering what my child was doing between the time he got out of school and dinner time. Or maybe its a matter of resource allocation? If he needed a computer to complete the work, perhaps he couldn't get on because big sis spent 2 hours updating her face book page, or access isn't allowed until mom and dad are home which affects timing.

 

Or maybe he's learned from experience that if he has a homework assignment that will take him 10 minutes and lets you know at dinner time that he needs access to the computer for the 10 minutes needed, in your mind that means he can't go to Scouts because he's got homework that needs to be done - so he's just stopped telling you.

 

Now this is all speculation - none of it may apply in your case - so apologies if you get offended - no offense is intended. But my speculation is not without foundation - I've seen combinations of all of these scenarios in my work with at risk youth.

 

(The above is not meant to imply that your son is a youth at risk. It is only meant to identify that I work with youth at risk).(This message has been edited by CalicoPenn)

[packsaddle]

Yeah, the lab partner thing. Both of mine have had that nice experience of shouldering the burden of the whole team in order to protect their own grade (they also better understand the concept of parasitism as a result).

 

I'm squarely with Engineer61 here as well. I'm a great proponent of creative failure. When a boy goofs off and eventually doesn't make Eagle because of it, I always mention to him that this could be one of the best lessons of life - the consequences of our choices. And it's a lesson that doesn't do much damage for future prospects.

 

In the case of school assignments, I think it is best to allow the student to realize the consequences of a poor choice at an earlier age and use the experience as a way to learn how to make better choices.

 

These kinds of lessons are much easier to overcome in life when learned young. By the time they make it to my lab, there isn't much forgiveness ahead for them. And out there in the real world, practically none at all.

 

As for the goodness of girls I can personally attest to THAT fallacy. And like Beavah suggested, perhaps interesting times ahead. I hope you both succeed.

[Engineer61]

"Sandbag me once, shame on you. Sandbag me twice, shame on me"

 

Shame on me? Nuh-uh.

 

Funny, when I was growing up...if you sandbagged my parents twice, you'd see the proverbial gallows being built.

 

As for resources....there was plenty of both IF he chose not to attend the Scout Meeting.

 

I believe in baseball justice... 3 strikes and you're out.

 

School first....extras second.

[perdidochas]

1) The assignment was handed out Friday. This is an advanced language arts class (which he chose to enroll in), so additional work is demanded and expected.

 

2) The assignment was doable in the time allotted, but not less. (Had he been here to work on it.)

 

 

I still agree the kid was in the right. I've got a bachelor's degree, two master's degrees and most of a Ph.D. I've never had a class that had an unexpected assignment that would take the whole weekend to write that was assigned the Friday before being due Tuesday. Now, I've had cases where I didn't know the exact assignment, but was given the specifics in that sort of time frame (i.e. a take-home test), but that is a different matter, as I could reasonably plan for it. I totally disagree with the teacher on this matter. That is not teaching kids anything about time management. It seems arbitrary, and beyond what colleges expect (which is my view of what an advanced class is supposed to prepare a student for)