Adults also have rights.

[nolesrule]

It is not the youths' responsibility to recruit adult leaders.

 

If there is not a scouter within the unit willing to serve in the scouter role on a youth planned outing just because no scouter wants to go to the planned destination, then there probably needs to be some discussion about recruiting additional scouters.

[Beavah]

Yah, hmmm...

 

I think one of da things that's very true is that units generally follow the interests and skills of their adult leaders, eh? A troop that has adults who like backpacking will do a lot of backpacking. A group of adults who enjoys water sports will inspire their lads to do water sports. They follow our encouragement and enthusiasm.

 

Da flipside is that adults can also hold kids back, eh? Troops run by our more rotund adults aren't likely to do much mountain biking, even if the lads are interested. It's goin' to be car camping central. The lads will follow our dis-encouragement as much as our encouragement.

 

I'm an old fashioned sort of fellow. I don't think adults should hold kids back. I think our responsibility is to help 'em achieve more than us, more than what we're interested in, more than what we're capable of. So that means suckin' it up, gettin' in shape, and goin' mountain biking or mosquito eating on fan boats in da Everglades or snow camping in the frozen north. Or, if we can't, to make darn sure we either step aside or find some assistants who will do those things with the lads.

 

A Scout is Loyal and Cheerful, eh? Some times yeh go along just because that's what da group wants, and our role is to support da group. The other lesson - opt out of whatever yeh don't like and show up only for da things you enjoy - doesn't seem like the sort of lesson we want to teach.

 

Beavah

 

[jhankins]

I believe this attitude will teach a harmful lesson to the boys: If we don't like something, we don't have to do it.

 

As we prepare these boys to make ethical and moral decisions over their lifetimes, teaching them to be intolerant of others' choices is a bad call. So when their kids want to go to the park and Dad doesn't want to, too bad, kid. When they have a responsibility at work or to a friend, and they don't like what the friend needs -- too bad, friend.

 

I can see rebellion in a troop that way. I don't like Camp Emerald Bay, so my patrol's not going..."

 

Telling the youth "I don't like the Everglades, ergo, I refuse to go," isn't very Loyal, and that's one of the things we're trying to teach them.

[Oak Tree]

I think I'll firmly stake out the wishy-washy middle ground on this one.

 

I agree with everything Eamonn says. There are certain things I'm just not going to do. But there are lots of adults in the unit. We'll work to find someone who will. We've never yet been unable to come up with one or two. So yes, as an adult, I may have to do some things that aren't my first preference. I remind people that they are there so that all the kids can be served, not just their own sons.

 

It's going to be different in different units, eh? Small units with few leaders need to make sure that their leaders can go on the trips. My unit has lots of adults to choose from. A different ASM leads every trip. I'm the SM and I don't go on every trip, sometimes due to Scouting conflicts (training, other son in the pack, etc), sometimes due to family or work conflicts, sometimes, like Eamonn, just because the upcoming trip isn't my cup of tea, and sometimes because life is just too busy and I need a weekend to catch up on other things, spend time with my wife, whatever. If the troop committee/COH were to institute a requirement that the SM try to attend virtually all outings, I would step down. I think it's a great ideal if someone can make the time, but sometimes that just isn't going to work. I do have one ASM, who does not want to be SM, but who does go on most of the trips. That ensures some consistency across our outings.

 

I think Scouting works best when it's fun for the adults. If we're there because we want to be, and not because we feel like we have to be, then it's a better experience for everyone.

[acco40]

Many years ago (9?) I took the Strictly for Scoutmasters course at PTC. One of the things I noticed was that Scoutmasters from the midwest were generally going on all of the troop outings. Scoutmasters from the coasts and far west did not. The Scoutmaster was not very much different from the SAs.

 

I'm not saying one is more or less correct, just an observation.

[Gunny2862]

I'm joining Oak in the middle ground.

 

One) Adults very definitely have rights.

 

Two) The Registered Adults, especially Scoutmasters, should support the Troop to the extent of their capability.

 

Three)Discussion:

Okay, until a youth is caught (trapped) in a cave that I would have to crawl in and no one else(Senior Scout, ASM, Park Guide, EMS , is deemed capable of retrieving them, and I am not of more use in a site coordinator position (seeking outside help, coordinating response, keeping track of who is in the cave and who is out and if out where they are, is medical response required, etc., etc., etc., then you won't see me in a cave I have to crawl into.

IF My bills we to become overwhelming and I needed to work a weekend or two to avoid severe financial consequences, then arranging for another (Qualified) Troop adult to accompany the Scouts should be fine.

 

IF it is a decision between my Wife requesting my time on a certain weekend and the Scouts , sorry the Wife wins because A)she's the Wife and B) she very rarely asks and usually looks for a hole in the Troop calendar so she can schedule around them before asking.

 

OTOH, if the Scout want to do an activity I'm out of shape for, well, time to do some push aways and run a little.

If they want to do something I'm not interested in - fortunately I can usually brush up on my knots, re-learn Morse , catch up on paperwork etc. etc. etc. but I never get the chance because even on a "free" weekend

(which still means the Scouts set-up, cook, cleanup, and abide by Scouting rules( buddy system etc. etc.)) I wind up working advancement with the motivated few.

 

Adults do have rights, they also have responsibilities - one of which is being a good example of being an adult.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

[Eamonn]

Most of the Troops in the area where I live tend to do the same old same old year in and year out.

Summer Camp is at the Council Summer Camp.

Most Troops book for next year, before they depart this year.

Same site same week.

While I've never asked!

I kinda think the Scouts have no say what-so-ever in any of this. I think that they think this is just the way it is and it's what they expect.

A good many Troops close up shop for the summer after or around Summer camp time. (I think this is daffy. Summer is the best time ever to be a boy and a Scout!)

A few plan a special Summer Trip. Many work on a rotating schedule for this: Washington DE, Gettysburg,Wright-Patterson Air Force Base.

The District offers four Camporees a year.

Throw in the odd hike or bike ride along with maybe a weekend camp-out and that's about the extent of the program that is offered for the year.

The Council offers opportunities for Scouts to participate in trips to one of the National High Adventure bases on years when there isn't a Jamboree.

Some Troops in the Council do use the "Council Spot" and go as a Troop or part of a Troop. But in my 25 years in the District I'm in no local Troop ever has.

While I'm un-willing to put down any of our local Scouter's, they are great people. I'm sure that the Scouts in these Troops have about as much choice in what they do as my dogs have when I take them for their walk.

If offering a program like this is what being "A responsible adult" is? I know I'd be bored to death! (And we wonder why we can't hold on to the older youth!)

Somehow, someway there has to be some happy middle ground.

The Scouts in the Ship know and are aware that I'm game for most things. (I'm not sure about an entire week at the Council Summer Camp!!) They are give opportunities to come up with their own ideas and plans. While maybe I'm not willing to go up the Up the Orinoco to the Land of the Maquiritares, just yet.

This has to be better than being a member of a Troop where the high-point is the expected week at Summer camp. With the Scouts having no say in it?

Eamonn.

[resqman]

We have at least 12 ASMs. We only have 1 SM. The SM attends almost everything. His sons are over 18 and away at college.

 

Not every ASM attends every event. There are the usual core suspects which attend most every event. All are fully trained and have extensive outdoor skills. There are ASMs who are willing to participate and "help out" as it were but are often still working towards becoming full trained or have jobs that limit their ability to attend ever function.

 

The lads don't know why leader X did not attend an event. I would guess they really don't care as long as they can attend. Some lads actually prefer some adults NOT attend due to personality conflicts.

 

Adults have rights and responsibilities. We are responsible for providing safety. We have the right to not attend for any reason, we are volunteers. I agree that if the lads are told upfront that leader X will not be attending but they are welcome to plan event Y as long as they can an adequate number of trained leaders, there is no problem. Scouts opt out of events all the time for similar reasons.