Apathy Issues

[SMT224]

Motivation and excitement for Scouting activities has to come from the Scouts themselves.

 

When we have an upcoming activity, the SPL an ASPL ask who will be going. There is lots of cheering and positive exclamation for those attending. Then they focus on those who are not going, asking (in front of everyone), "Why not? Whats so much more important than this activity? Are you dead? Sick? Then why not come?" Some have have very legitimate excuses like family, school, or sports, and express considerable regret that they will not be able to come. Others who are vague or say they don't feel like it get a fair amount of peer pressure to come. It doesn't reach the point of harassment, but puts everyone on notice that they are expected, as members of the Troop, to attend if they can.

 

At the Troop meeting just after the activity, we show pictures of what happened, and those who went talk about how much fun they had and what a great time it was. This will often motivate the undecided or apathetic to go next time. We have about 50%-75% for most activities, with some favorite camping trips and summer camp nearing 100%.

 

 

 

[imasoonerfan]

I think moosetracker is dead on. Our main issue is new parents. They don't see the program as something that important and have an apathetic attitude and the trickles down to their Scouts.

 

I have tried and tried again for the last two years to get parents of new Scouts involved and have come up with squat. I am not new at this either. I have sent emails, made phone calls and corenered people at events and still they will not budge. I am not sure what more we can do short of holding their TV remotes ransom.

 

I have taksed the parents with finding out from their kids what it is THEY want to do and then asking their kids to go to the SPL and myself (I am the CC)and passing it on so we can pass it on. The planning will be pushed back into their laps and then they are the responsible party. If it fails they have no one to blame but themselves.

[perdidochas]

Not enough info about the Eagle Scout, but to me if only 4-5 show out of 64, that shows a lack of leadership (or at the least, either choosing dates that conflict with a lot of other things, or that Eagle candidate has irritated the younger kids).

[Stosh]

Just my 2 cents worth.

 

It's the program emphasis. There are two units in my immediate area. Adult-led program of 40+ scouts and a boy-led program of 9 boys.

 

At the last council event (Klondike) both units fielded the same number of boys - 9.

 

While they couldn't muster 25%, the boy-led program mustered 100%

 

At the last local event, Scouting for Food, they had a few more boys than us, but we put out 100% again.

 

At the last meeting of the troop, we were one boy short, the meeting before that we had them all there.

 

I'm a firm believer if the boys have ownership of the program, they have a vested interest in it and will show up.

 

Stosh

 

If the boys own the program, they will be there and they will be excited about it because it's their program. It's not the parents' program, or the leaders' program, it's THEIRS!

 

 

[Jeffrey H]

In reference to poor turnout to Eagle Service Projects, make sure your Eagle candidate plans ahead, determines the number of helpers he needs and contacts his helpers directly by phone or face-to-face. While a big turnout can be encouraging, you can have too many Scouts/Helpers on sight and they actually hinder the process rather than help it.

 

We have an Eagle candidate that announced to all of our Scouts, by e-mail, to come out and help him with his Eagle project 3 days before the date. Sorry, that type of planning will not fly.

[Engineer61]

"I think moosetracker is dead on. Our main issue is new parents. They don't see the program as something that important and have an apathetic attitude and the trickles down to their Scouts. "

 

Interesting perspective from the Troop side of the fence.

 

I think the message received by the parents might be a little different ...

 

"Patrol led. Boy led." That is the very first thing we were told when we walk through the door.

 

After that, it's the chain of command and committees that the parents have to negotiate through...and yes, you need a manual just to do that.

 

The main message delivered to most of the parents at this point is "Parents - Keep Out - We'll let you know if we need you to drive somewhere."

 

Now, if you do happen to decide that you want to come in and volunteer, you have to break into the inner circle of the existing parents. I can see where that could be easy falling off a log, or as difficult as overthrowing a government.

 

It gets worse if you weren't a Scout as a kid.

 

BTDT

 

 

 

[moosetracker]

Engineer61, it's sad it your troop is a good old boys group..

 

Most troops even boy lead, try to get one (if not both) parents involved. True, alot of us, prefer first year parents to be on committee not ASM in order to learn the difference of Cubscout & Boy scout program. Some will invite you to be an ASM when you walk in the door.

 

But, No parents are important. The boys need guidence to be able to Lead. In some ways this is more difficult then an Adult lead program. The boys drive the program, and choose the events they want, and do some prep work to go. But, they don't figure out the cost, or who's driving, or some of the prep work (like making reservations and figuring out any special restrictions or safty issues).. The may work a fundraiser.. But they don't figure out how many chickens to buy, or what can you get donated, or organize the dates & places for the fundraisers.

 

A parent getting personally involve and knowing how the troop operates, can't get involved in doing things for his son. But, on that drive home, they can talk to the son who had a difficult evening.. What went wrong? What could you have done better? If your having trouble with so and so have you talked followed trying to change it by contacting the chain of command in the right order.

 

A parent watching can start to see how being a scout is going to help him in college.. You can make comments like, "Your merit badges are just like college courses.. You have your required courses and then some electives.." Or "Your troop jobs are just like being an employee. You have your levels of command and everyone has a part to play for the betterment of the team.." Or "your troop is just like a sports activity..." On and On.. You as the parent can help the boy learn the right way to advance and improve.."

 

Scouts whose parents are not involved, have a harder time completing their Eagle.. They can do it, but the lack of parent involvement is a hinderance to their success..

 

A troop should ALWAYS want the parent involved!

[perdidochas]

Moosetracker,

 

I like your description of how a troop should be re: parents.

 

The troop my son just joined did exactly that. All the new parents were invited to take part, be it as committee members, or as prospective assistant scoutmasters, with committee membership being highly encouraged. Our troop has a lot of parent involvement, but our role is not to lead, but to administer. We take care of paperwork, accounts, t-shirts, etc. The boys decide what to do. It's been hard as the former Webelos Den leader to sit back and let the boys do what they need to without my leadership, but I've been successful so far.

[acco40]

imasoonerfan - Is your unit more troop oriented or patrol oriented?

 

P.S. As a Mizzou grad with a father who was a 'Husker - it pains me to be cordial but you do rate slightly higher than a longhorn fan.

[Engineer61]

"There is lots of cheering and positive exclamation for those attending. Then they focus on those who are not going, asking (in front of everyone), "Why not? Whats so much more important than this activity? Are you dead? Sick? Then why not come?"

 

Ah. So teaching kids to succumb to peer pressure is a positive.

 

Gotta erase that note in the parents manual.

[SMT224]

Can peer pressure be positive? Absolutely! When done in a friendly manner,and when the outcome is positive. If it leads to an apathetic Scout to attend an Eagle Project work day or go to an Eagle Court of Honor, then the outcome is positive.

 

The quote cited is accurate but context is critical. There were smiles and laughter all around, and the Scout in the spotlight, who had said he was not sure if he'd be at an upcoming ECOH, grinned and said he actually was alive and would be there. He did attend and later said he was glad he did.

 

But if it's done in a mean way, with anger and intimidation, the outcome may not be positive, even if the Scout attends the activity.

 

I see nothing wrong with SPL and his Leadership Team putting the Scouts on notice that they are expected to attend Troop activities unless they have a very good reason not to be there.

 

[perdidochas]

Engineer,

 

In your complaint about your son and the assignment, you use peer pressure as an argument--i.e. all the other kids did it, why couldn't you? Peer pressure for positive things is a good thing.

[SSScout]

" I always go to funerals. I figure, if I go to theirs, they'll come to mine, ya know?"

=Yogi Berra=

[Engineer61]

Peri, you wrote...

 

"In your complaint about your son and the assignment, you use peer pressure as an argument--i.e. all the other kids did it, why couldn't you? Peer pressure for positive things is a good thing."

 

That is false. Blatantly so. Why? Because I did not use this as an argument to my son. I specified as a comparison in the discussion to indicate that the assignment was reasonable to complete.

 

No, I don't believe that peer pressure IS EVER GOOD. Forsaking individuality takes away our greatest potential.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[SMT224]

Sorry E61, but I really have to disagree with you on your last statement...

 

"I don't believe that peer pressure IS EVER GOOD. Forsaking individuality takes away our greatest potential."

 

Peer Pressure is the expectation of the group. In Scouting, the expectation of the Troop is that Scouts will follow the Scout Law on any Scout activity. The expectation is that the Scout will clean his own mess kit and do his duty according to the posted KP schedule. The expectation is that the Scout will do his best.

 

And it's not the adult leaders that enforce these expectations, but the Scouts themselves, via peer pressure. Yes, the SPL or PL can yell at the offending Scout, but without the support of his peers - the rest of the Scouts - he would have no real authority. Adults can step in if things get out of control, but most of the time, the Scouts and the pressure they exert on their peers keeps the Troop within the Scout Law.

 

Individuality? Ever been a chaperon on a middle school trip? How about an over-nighter? There you'll see all kinds of individuals doing whatever they feel like, along with some peer pressure to do some pretty dumb things. But very little positive peer pressure like you see in Scouting.

 

It really depends on the group and what the expectation of that group is. With Scouting I think the expectations are very positive, and thus the peer pressure of this group is by and large positive. Of course there are exceptions, these kids are human after all, but for the most part the kind of peer pressure I see in Boy Scouts is positive and challenges the individual Scout to be a better person.

 

For example, last night at our Troop meeting, two Scouts passed their BOR and were awarded their rank advancement during the closing - one made Star, the other Life. The Scouts applauded them and the Senior Scouts shook their hands. There was genuine positive peer pressure that flow from the Troop to these two guys, and everyone felt it. There was an expectation of advancement, and a positive peer response when these Scouts achieved it. And apathy? Nope, not a bit in that crowd.