Apathy Issues

[imasoonerfan]

I have a question about an issue that I am sure most units have experienced at one point or another.

 

Recently we have been battling apathy with both Scouts and parents. Over the last two years we have had three adults volunteer to help with the Troop and we have had 30+ Scouts cross to the Troop. We are also experiencing very low turnout on our service projects. Recently we had a Scout complete his Eagle project and only 4-5 Scouts showed to help over a two day period. 4-5 out of 64! In my mind that is pathetic. Sorry but I just call it like I see it. It seems like they just dont care. I realize that people have lives outside of Scouting. All three of my kids are in Scouting, sports, school programs and I can keep going but we make time for the extra things.

 

How have you battled this issue? Is there a way? Am I overreacting?

[NickP412]

This is something my troop ran into with several of the boys. They were held up at the board of review/scoutmaster conference. I believe the adults said not showing up to the majority of events was showing a lack in scout-spirit. In the case with my troop we did loose a few boys but quite a few did begin attending more events.

[BadenP]

It depends, does this apathy extend into all troop activities, meetings, campouts, etc., or is this an isolated incident? If it is a one time thing don't sweat it, sometimes things happen. The other question to ask is did this Eagle candidate really use his organizational and planning skills to make sure this was the most opportune date for the troop members?

 

If apathy is prevalent among all your troop functions then maybe you need to look at your program to see if it is meeting the needs and interests of your scouts. Who are making all of the plans the youth or the adults, remember this is supposed to be a boy led program. A little apathy from time to time happens in most units, but a widescale continuing apathetic problem is a red flag signaling deep rooted problems in the troop.

[imasoonerfan]

The issue seems to be around anything outside of troop meetings and campouts. But the campout turnout has been lower than normal lately.

 

It mainly centers around service projects. They get scheduled and planned and only 2 Scouts volunteer and the thing gets cancelled. That is very frustrating.

 

Also the amount of adults willing to help has dropped off. It feels like we have 7-8 core people doing everything lately. I have personally asked people to help and no one seems willing to volunteer.

[ScoutNut]

You have a good 1/2 of your Troop who are fairly new Scouts. Are they advancing? Are the activities and service projects ones that the BOYS wanted to do?

 

I agree with BP, if you have this apathy in all areas of your Troop, then you need to take a hard look at your Troops program.

 

 

[Twocubdad]

Our troop is similar to yours and we're seeing the same thing. Our troop has also exploded in numbers and in the ratio of new boys. So we're trying to program to both the new and older Scouts. Consequently, here's a sample of our troop calendar:

 

Last Saturday -- Day-long service project helping a local non-profit

Last Sunday -- Eagle Court of Honor and Troop Committee Meeting

Tonight -- PLC

Next Weekend -- Philmont shakedown trip

Next Saturday -- an outing with the local orienteering club and an Eagle project work day.

Next Sunday -- A merit-badge related outing for guys 1C and up

Following weekend -- troop campout

Following Saturday -- OA callout

Following Sunday -- Jamboree troops meet

 

That's 13 activities in 16 days (counting Troop meetings). I can't think of another time when we've had so much going on. Although we're over 60 boys, we are spread pretty thin. Consider it growing pains, but we need to get a better handle on it.

 

I think we need to do a better job of communicating to our Scouts and families that many of these programs are being offered on an ala carte basis. Clearly, some things are primary and some things are supplemental. Troop campouts are important. Philmont and Jamboree stuff is important to the guys going. Maybe we need to think more about the rest.

 

We also need to do a reset on our attitude toward attendance at these things and be willing to pull the plug on activities that aren't attracting interest. Our Eagle candidates need to understand they can't automatically rely on 10 or 12 solid workers showing up just because they put out the call. They may need to look beyond the troop for help.

 

One thought which occurs to me -- and thanks to this thread, I'll bring it up at PLC -- is to encourage patrols to adopt some of these activities as patrol activities. Our Eagles should make one of their work days just for the guys from their patrol. If the Aardvarks have several guys who need orienteering for First Class, they should adopt that trip a patrol outing.

 

Maybe this isn't what's happening in your troop, soonerfan, but from here it's a good problem to have.

[Venividi]

"Mainly centers around service projects"

 

While it is hard to tell from a distance, I would suspect that service projects are seen as "work" rather than "fun", so there may be a "what's in it for me?" feeling, so they take a pass on coming to the service project if they dont need the hours for their next rank advancement.

It will likely take a combination of many things, over an extended period of time. After all, if all boys were great citizens, they wouldn't need scouting.

 

Some ideas to try:

 

For Troop Service Projects:

Ask the PLC to take responsibility for increasing attendance at future troop service projects. Peer pressure works better than adult prompting and prodding. When charging the PLC with this responsibility, you might end up with blank stares and need to seed them with some ideas such as:

having food/pizza for those that are there;

a special outing for participants;

keep a tally of service hours worked and a special reward for the patrol that has the highest number of service hours per patrol member over the previous 3 months.

Ask the PLC to select the troop service projects.

At the meeting before a service project, the SPL could talk about the "helpful" part of the scout law.

Set expectation that all patrol leaders will call their patrol members the day before a service project and remind them to come. And follow up with the SPL to make sure that he follows up with his patrol leaders to see that they made the calls.

Once seeded, the boys may come up with some ideas of their own.

 

Add an hour or two of service work to every campout. Over time this will ingrain a troop culture that providing service is part of being a member of the troop.

 

Start to include SM minutes that touch on "helpful".

 

Ask individual boys at SM conferences a series of questions about how they feel when they do good things for others, what do they consider when choosing to participate or not, etc, and let them talk. Ask how his participation at service projects (or lack thereof) meshes with the scout law; and let him talk. Ask him what kind of help he likes to give, and let him talk You may end up with a good discussion where a scout realizes that he feels good about himself when he helps others.

 

Special recognition for service project participants at COH's.

 

Enlist parents help by reminding them of scoutings purpose, and the role that service to others plays in developing character and citizenship.

 

 

Eagle Projects:

When reviewing a scout's Eagle project plan, if it doesnt include specific steps that he is going to take to get people to work on his project, remind him that leadership is more than making an announcement to show up at a given location at a certain time. Discuss some ideas that he can use, (such as serving food, providing motivation and recognition of those that help him, making personal phone calls rather than a general announcement at a troop meeting, etc.). Remind the scout that he cannot expect troop members to show up at his project just because they are members of the same troop. Motivating others to participate is part of a leaders role.

 

It will take a while to change the troop culture. Eventually, a scout planning an Eagle project will have learned how to do this as a troop member; first as a patrol member observing how the youth leaders get the scouts to participate; and then as a PLC member with responsibility for motivating others to participate.

 

Hope you find some ideas that are applicable to your situation.

Good Luck.(This message has been edited by venividi)

[dg98adams]

I see 2 areas where this is reflected in my own Troop even though they get better every year, but is common to the units I am Unit Commissioner for.

 

#1 - Communication - About whats going on via calendar generated by the PLC and made available to the Committee, Scouts and Parents where changes and cancellations are rare.

 

 

#2 - Program - Doing what the Scouts enjoy - to own the program. A lot of the fun advancement comes on camping outings (cooking, tents, etc..), Aquatic activities & hikes.

 

Service projects are opportunities, if the Scout does to want to participate....there should not be a compulsion - but they must be getting approval for Service projects/time elsewhere or how could they progress past Tenderfoot.(This message has been edited by dg98adams)

[Engineer61]

From Twocub's post...

 

Last Saturday -- Day-long service project helping a local non-profit

Last Sunday -- Eagle Court of Honor and Troop Committee Meeting

Tonight -- PLC

Next Weekend -- Philmont shakedown trip

Next Saturday -- an outing with the local orienteering club and an Eagle project work day.

Next Sunday -- A merit-badge related outing for guys 1C and up

Following weekend -- troop campout

Following Saturday -- OA callout

Following Sunday -- Jamboree troops meet

 

So, if I read this right, you've scheduled stuff for at least three full consecutive weekends. I'd say you're a little over scheduled, especially this time of year.

[Engineer61]

From my own Scout's attitude on it, few of the service projects are viewed by him as fun.

 

For him they are strictly work that takes away from his weekend free time.

 

 

[moosetracker]

Some of it may be the lack of the new scouts parents participation in the program. They do tend to go hand-in-hand. If no one in your troop has viewed it yet, you might want to go to the Scout on-line training and view the training on Scouting parents.. In there they talk about an adult leader being tasked with getting to know the parents and get them to know the troop, then to task them with simple small things (can you drive, can you be the judge for this compitition etc.) . Then slowly growing their tasks and responsibilities. Our COR went to a meeting this weekend and was told Scouting Parent is having one Parent of each scout sign up as the Scouting Parent.. (not sure what that wins you but alot of names on your charter..)

 

But, you may need to see if the events are truely what the majority of the scouts want to do. Also you said due to only 2 scouts signing up for an activity, the activity is canceled. This can be a self-defeating downward spiral.. If you troop is canceling events, then scouts stop planning to attend them, because "it will just be canceled anyway".

[jeff-o]

As others have mentioned, get the Scouts to make the selection. In our August planning meeting last year, the Scouts decided they wanted to do two service projects in the coming year during camp outs. The first we completed a couple months ago -- the scouts camped on a trail in a national park and spent Saturday clearing the trail and re-blazing the trail. We had full attendance -- and the Scouts selected the project.(This message has been edited by jeff-o)

[Twocubdad]

"I'd say you're a little overschedled, especially this time of year."

 

I won't disagree. But a number of things are beyond our control and several are things targeted for specific groups.

 

My point is that if I'm disappointed with the attendance at any give event, I'm not considering the big picture. Of course expecting 100% attenance at every event.

[red feather]

Fought the same senario.

 

imho, the issue is not the particpation of scouts with the Eagle project but the involvement of parents to but into the program. If parents/guardians do not 'buy in' the scout may not.

 

Involvement in or at projects come with the expectations and traditions of the troop over time. And that takes time to generate.

 

The troop that I serve performs thecrossover of the webeloes then performs the same thing for the parents. Reinforces the idea that they are not done just starting on the trail of scouting with their son.

 

Close to 50% retention of parents. Once the scouts crossover with the troop scouts welcoming them, the parents cross over with the scouters (adult leaders) welcoming them.

 

As SM I like to think I set the 'tone' and am responsible for that tone. Retention of scouts and scouters is a big part of that. Building the scouter support allows me to work with the youth and help them with the program of scouting.

 

Expectations, Expectations, Expectations, gotta start that at the Cub level and build/enhance that when they cross over. Ask your CM to let you speak at Blue and Gold as to what the cross over means and what the parents are growing into. Takes time but the fruits that you will reap will only enhance the troop that you serve.

 

For what its worth.

 

yis

 

red feather

[Oak Tree]

Our troop has dealt with this from time to time. I deal with it in two ways.

1. I don't worry about it. At the time the apathy is occurring I just figure on making the event the best it can be for those who did show up.

2. Later we'll work with the PLC and with the adults to consider if there's anything about the program that might be changed. If turnout for service projects is low, we'd have to think about whether we're doing projects that the Scouts really want to do.

 

We have Eagle projects going on almost every weekend, now. Hence, automatic volunteers have become thinner and I've been advising Eagle candidates to contact some number of Scouts directly, and to look outside the troop for volunteers.

 

If only 4-5 Scouts show up, but we were hoping for more, then that would be a learning opportunity. Do we need to communicate better? Figure out a way to make the service more fun? Schedule fewer service projects?

 

I've found that the more enthusiastic/confident I am and the better I communicate and teach, the less apathy there is among the Scouts and the volunteers.