Why do troops fall apart or decline?

[E-Mtns]

In order to know what's good we have to understand what is bad. Experienced scouters please tell your horror stories so new scouters don't repeat them. This is an open discussion for all, with no holds barred, except it has to be the truth as you see it.

[Beavah]

In order to know what's good we have to understand what is bad.

 

Yah, I disagree with that premise, eh? I think in order to know what's good yeh have to look at what's good. Lots of times da things unsuccessful troops (or people) do are pretty similar to da things successful troops or people do. Just the timing or style is off.

 

Generally speakin', my experience is that troops follow da style and character of their adult leaders. When yeh have strong, committed, and kid-savvy adult leaders, they do well. When those leaders move on, or new folks come who create adult-conflict, units decline. When yeh get to "too small" and nobody steps up, units fold.

 

It's not usually a horror story. It's usually just a natural thing, eh? The less effective adult leadership leads to kids not feelin' as supported and so they go elsewhere. Their friends follow. When there's a lot of adult conflict, yeh lose good leaders, or at least a lot of their time gets wasted and their attitude gets affected. So kids feel less supported and go elsewhere. Their friends follow.

 

Pretty ordinary. Not a trainin' thing either, for the most part. Strong, committed, kid-savvy adult leaders are mostly found, and then supported. Not made.

 

Beavah

 

[moosetracker]

I agree with Beavah.. I have had my share of wonderful experiences and horror stories..

The strong success of a Pack or troop is based on the adult leaders. Even in a troop or crew where it is to be youth lead, our youth need good guidence and people doing the organization of the events. If you have choose a scoutmaster souly because they are the only one to take the job, rather then having a selection of canadites that you can choose the best from,you may get someone in the position that does not have the right personality. If the SM can not make the program fun, the boys will drift. If the committee cannot get the events organized so that the events become just broken promises, the program suffers.. Some troops fold, others grow and shrink in waves depending on the adult volunteers..

 

Other things may be the committee & SM/ASM or CM/ACM not being able to work together and their discourse effecting the program they are trying to deliver. That is not to say that arguements are not expected. Passionate arguements are the sign of people with different view who care to make the program the best it can be. It is just that in the end a compromise must be found, excepted and people must then forgive and forget anything said in anger. The lack of passion or people "just going through the motions", or one or a few people trained in the unit and everyone else untrained and following like sheep is not healthy either. The more trained everyone is from SM to the smallest person in the committee, the stronger the unit will be.

[moxieman]

E-Mtn asked for horror stories, so a horror story he shall have.

 

While in graduate school, I volunteered in the second oldest unit in that particular council. There was a falling-out among several of the adult leaders. They all quit except myself and another college student. So, what did we do? We contacted the charter organization (CO) to inform them of the situation and ask for help. We made the assumption that the largest church in the city (10,000 families strong!) should be able to put a call out at Sunday services for some leadership for their unit.

 

We made a bad assumption. Apparently, there had been no real communications between the troop and the CO for several years other than "Please sign the recharter paperwork council requires".

 

Why a bad assumption? For you see, we two students were not of their faith. When they learned that the unit they were sponsoring was down to two volunteers of a different faith, they pulled the plug rather than try and save the unit. To this day I still can't believe what they did. I could understand them asking us to leave, but to kill the unit entirely???

 

So, among other things mentioned so far, if you want a good unit, you need to keep in good, positive contact with the CO.

[moosetracker]

Good point moxieman!!

 

Yes, Yes, Yes, make sure the CO appoints a represenative that takes an interest in the unit. If they attend the committee meetings & a few events. Lot's of times the falling out between SM, ASM and the committee are adverted when they know they both have a boss that can pull them both in line. Otherwise alot of times the SM & ASM feel they do not need to listen to the committee, they think they are the head of not only the boys but the whole unit, and the committee works for them. Most times this is the reason the two groups stop working with each other. Truely they are equals the committee help organize for the SM so things run smoothly, but the SM must report to the committee and they can vote for changes to the program.. (this comment probably will get critasiam, but yes) they do not carry out the program for the youth, and BSA gives you the main guidelines.. but their are many small details that are up to the troop and if they are not running well the Committee can choose a change. (example: the boys are not paying their dues. We want to add the rule that a boy can not attend an event unless their dues is paid up. Or boys are getting jobs like "the bugaler position" they do nothing but get the credit at the end of the 6 months. The boys need to know up front they will not get credit unless they do the job, and we expect the SM to follow through and not credit it with something they did not do.) Things like that.

Anyway without a person above these two positions things get out of whack real quick.

[resqman]

Our CO does not sponser a Pack or Venture Crew. The nearest Packs in our area also have Troops sponsored by the same CO. The last several years the other troops have been in "transition" due to a variety of adult leadership changes.

 

As a result we have had good membership drives. 12-16 webelos joining each year for 3 years running. We also had several scouts transfer from the struggling troops to ours. The brothers of the transfers eventually wound up in our troop as well. The other troops have seemed to resolve their issues and more of the Webelos from "thier feeder" packs are choosing the troop at the same meeting loction.

 

We are only expecting 2 Webelos to join this year. We are still a strong and active troop with ~55 active members. We are not going to fold as a result of a poor Webelos transition but it does mean we will have to try harder over the next year to generate more potentials. During the last year we have had at least 4-6 "walk-ins" who either had no prior scouting experience or moved into the area and chose our troop.

 

I can see where the combination of no longer allowing flyers to go home in the school system along with the lack of a "feeder" Pack could downsize a troop to the point it struggles and folds.

[John-in-KC]

Three words: Deploy. Den. Chiefs.

 

A good Den Chief, deployed beginning NLT Bear year, and staying with (either singly or as several DCs across several years) will give a Troop a competitive advantage.

 

Nine words: Deploy a "Cub Scout Support" ASM to the Pack.

 

Listen for the Packs needs. Provide program support to assist.

 

If you care about the Packs, you're money ahead of the "feeder" relationships. SFAIK, there is nothing in BSA literature about "feeder" relationships.

[WestCoastScouter]

IMHO - It is positive, enthusiastic, & well organized adult leadership that assists in keeping a troop (or pack) going strong.

 

I have seen units that are booming with activity, and the creme de la creme of the District. Then leadership transitions to new people, and literally I have seen units fall apart under lazy new leadership....

[E-Mtns]

Reply to John-in-KC

 

I know a SM who has said he and his troop will not camp with the local packs Webelos Den boys. He said it is not required "by the book" and he can't insure the "safety" of the boys. He did say if every parent went through a background check he may consider it. I believe that approach may violate the Scout Law, specifically, being Trustworthy, Helpful, Friendly and Kind. It also goes against the Scout Oath, "To help other people at all times".

 

The Pack-Troop relationship is starting to suffer from it too.

 

 

[Eagledad]

While I agree with the Beavh, I was the District fireman for struggling units and there are a few common traits of the units that really struggle.

 

1. The dont have a common goal, each adults just kind of does their own thing to what they think is their job.

 

2. No training because they view their job as pretty simple and just do what they think should be done.

 

3. Very little planning, mostly just shooting from the hip on a month to month basis.

 

 

When I worked with these units, the very first thing was getting them trained. At the same time I showed them Scoutings Mission and Vision Statements. I would have them discuss setting goals toward the BSAs goals, mostly just to get them to see there is a direction for everyone to follow. I asked every leader to list their responsibilities on a chart until they started seeing that everyone actually did have an expected set of responsibilities for their part on the team. I also help them look one year into the future of their program. You would be amazed how that alone helps the adults to fit better into the program.

 

That takes a little bit of time, but you can kind of understand the value in those simple traits of a successful team or unit. I highly push Wood Badge on the Committee Chair and SM or CM since they are perceived as the team leaders. Wood Badge is an excellent team training course and goes into much greater detail to those items I mention above.

 

Barry

 

[E-Mtns]

Eagledad,

 

I know of a SM that disregards advice from a Woodbadge and Powderhorn trained volunteer and does not understand or use the "methods" of scouting either. It's almost as if they want the benefits (i.e., insurance coverage) scouting has to offer but then not follow the program.

[Eagle92]

All very good advice. My $.04 worth ( inflation you know )

 

1)Train, mentor, advise, WHATEVER YOU CAN DO, to get the older scouts to train, mentor, and advise the younger scouts. I've seen units that fall apart when the SM leaves and no knows what to do. And I've seen units that had dynamic leaders leave and carry on b/c teh YOUTH were the ones running things, and priovided the continuity.

 

2) Establish traditions. This is minor compared to some things, but in the long term it somehting that sets a standard that no one wants to break and gives a sense of pride, belonging, and "something bigger than yourself. In my troop some simple ones were SPL has shotgun in SMs car, the nitetime activity at camp, etc, and how all BORs ended, ( "We must inform you... that we want to see you in X amount of months

 

3) Establish ceremonies. Again minor but leads to better morale. We had and used an Investiture Ceremony, PL and SPL ceremonies.

 

[Eagledad]

>>I know of a SM that disregards advice from a Woodbadge and Powderhorn trained volunteer and does not understand or use the "methods" of scouting either. It's almost as if they want the benefits (i.e., insurance coverage) scouting has to offer but then not follow the program.

[Stosh]

To some degree or another, all groups function basically the same way and if one understands this, accepting the inevitable is a lot easier. All groups go through cycles. This is normal.

 

When a group is new, it spends most of its resources in membership acquisition. Once they get the numbers, they stop this process and go into a maintenance type situation which until the members cycle out will serve them pretty well.

 

Then as the program that was designed by others begins to loose it's luster, it will struggle to redefine itself. If it is unable to pull that off it will go into a declining process. Everyone will run around trying to stave off this decline offering what they don't have to offer. If they can't figure it out as members, they look to "new blood" to bring in a "fresh idea" to save their sinking ship.

 

Eventually the cycle will bottom out when all else fails and the handful of remaining members will start a membership drive to start up the group again.

 

And thus the cycle begins all over again.

 

Stosh

[acco40]

The reason most troops decline is that the adults don't play nice. The reason most troops thrive is because the adults do play nice. Very simple.

 

A more complicated question is, why don't the adults play nice sometimes? The reason is because many adults are dealing with other folks "precious" children and unlike teachers and other folks who work with children, some Scouters are not really well trained in dealing with youth. Being an expert fisherman, knotsman (is that a word), camper, etc. doesn't mean you can relate well with 12 - 17 year old boys.

 

Think of the little league dad/coach who has to choose who the shortstop, starting pitcher, lead-off hitter and who is a bench warmer. Same situation.