Former AOL recipients drop out of Boy Scouts

[AvidSM]

I agree that a dropout rate of over 50%, which is just about the norm, can have many causes. The transition from a Pack to a Troop can be drastic for some boys, especially if they have never gone camping before. You also have to work on the new parents. Joining a troop is more of a commitment and you have to let them know how their son will benefit from the program. There are many misconceptions about Boy Scouts, and you have to let them know its more than just knot tying and helping old ladies across the street.

 

I am seeing more and more examples of parents not letting go - not allowing their sons to make decisions on their own. These parents are very uneasy about allowing their sons the freedom that boy scouting would give them. The fear of child abuse or abduction always seems to be on the back of their minds. They also push their sons to get straight A's in middle school and withhold attendance at troop meetings as a means of discipline.

 

It would not surpise me if the two boys who earned their AOL and stayed in the troop have dads that were in scouting when they were a youth.

[OldGreyEagle]

I hold quite a few Eagle Board of Reviews in the District I serve. One thing that continues to amaze me is the number of times I run across the "Flock of Eagles" syndrome. This is where a Cub Den starts off, sometimes even as Tigers and some later on, but the group gels, the parents enjoy each others company and the Den bridges to a Troop and then just about every scout earns Eagle. Both parents and kids love the experience. The Boys have a lifetime of memories and the Pack and Troop is just so proud they can bust.

 

Then there is the Issue of the "Stealth" patrol, we think they exist but there is no evidence of it. None or little attendance at meetings or outings and they just in the end drop. Perhaps a few hang on, some even make Eagle. I just wish I could figure out how the "Flock of Eagle" syndrome works and what causes a Den to turn to Stealth mode. Both happen in just about every Troop in the District. If we could unlock that secret, it would be great!

[jhankins]

I think the "flock" might have to do with the program delivery and the buy-in of the parents. If the parents are participating themselves, learning, training, and always looking for a better way to better the boys, you'll have more success.

 

 

[Engineer61]

Oh, I know two political factors that will knock down a few at AOL, depending on where you live.

 

All of our Hispanic and Buddhist Cubs Scouts ended before or at the first BSA meeting.

 

The Buddhist's drop on the Oath, while the Hispanics dropped because of the LDS affliations.

[perdidochas]

Unless the boys were ten for 6 months, 4th graders can't get the Arrow of Light. If they were ten for 6 months, then they were pretty old 4th graders.

[perdidochas]

Webelos isn't really a two year program. It's a year and a half program.

 

I've lucked out with my den. All 5 of my AOL recipients crossed over, and look like they will be active Boy Scouts. I also had 2 late comers who didn't earn AOL, but will be active Boy Scouts. Now, I'm advancement chair of their Troop.

[Eagledad]

>>Hispanics dropped because of the LDS affliations

[BadenP]

All these reasons, some valid and others being a real stretch aside, the real problem is the Webelos program itself. A two year program doing the same thing each year and expecting to keep older boys interested is not very realistic. I was a WDL during the transition from a one year to a two year program so I know the merits and pitfalls of both. If you want the boys to be ready for a troop you better have good relations with at least two troops that offer different styles of program for the boys to choose from otherwise your transition will fail. Some boys like the gung ho all outdoor dominate troop while others prefer a combination of camping and diverse activities, and getting the right boys matched with the right troop is 90% of the battle.

 

I know so many Webelos dens who never go camping outside of a backyard den campout and have virtually no troop contact before the transition and then the den leaders and parents wonder why their boys drop out of boy scouts during the 1st year. Next the second year of Webelos is supposed to be about learning the skills and preparing with a focusing on becoming boy scouts, but too many dens just keep working on activity badges and focus only on the cub side, and then are surprised when their boys are ill prepared and some downright scared to go into a troop. Part of this problem is the WDL training, while better than it used to be, falls way short of showing proven methods to make this transition a rather simple one. I have had three years as a WDL and all of my boys went into and stayed in boy scouts, 80% of them were awarded their Eagle. I have led WDL training classes and have even trained some of my former Webelos as WDL's. For a two year Webelos program to work and for the boys to successfully transition and do well in a troop the pack, and WDL need to follow a program that really prepares the boys, unfortunately many do not and the horrible statistics are the proof.

[Eagledad]

>>the real problem is the Webelos program itself. A two year program doing the same thing each year and expecting to keep older boys interested is not very realistic.>For a two year Webelos program to work and for the boys to successfully transition and do well in a troop the pack, and WDL need to follow a program that really prepares the boys, unfortunately many do not and the horrible statistics are the proof.

[BadenP]

Barry

 

The problem with your scenario is that it is not what happens in the real world. Most WDl's are not trained well enough these days to make the Webelos program work. The personal time restraints, and lack of desire in many cases prevent them for going to the more advanced training classes that would help them be successful. WDL is one of the hardest jobs for a pack to fill because it requires even more time for preparation than a regular den meeting.

 

As a DE I saw in many packs how the Webelos den was suffering because the WDL was someone they had arm twisted into taking the job, and that the person was undertrained, to say the least, and was in over their heads. This resulted in boys leaving in the first year in large numbers. The DTC and I developed a special, intense WDL training course that we held during RT each month. Those leaders who graduated from the program had huge success rates with their Webelos programs, eventually we got all WDL's through the program, the dropout rate went from 60% to less than 10%. My point is that we had to go beyond the book resources to a viable,and proven working model of how to make the Webelos program really be successful, something National training programs have been unable to do.

[Eagledad]

>>The problem with your scenario is that it is not what happens in the real world.

[BadenP]

Barry

 

It is not only WDL's but for most pack positions arm twisting is a part of getting the pack off the ground since the adults are for the most part new to scouting and the least trained and experienced. You make my point that the WDL training from National DOES NOT do much to properly prepare them to train the boys for boy scouts, in addition the WDL's time committment is much more than a regular den leader which many are unwilling to give. The result is that in most packs the weakest links seem to be the Tigers and the Webelos. and both have high dropout rates.

[Eagledad]

Then you arent seeing the bigger picture. Your theory doesnt hold because we dont have the same loses of boys at the Wolf and Bear years.

 

Most adults at the Webelos age are not new to the program (Tiger, Wolf, Bear), they are experienced and understand how to work with boys, so arm twisting shouldnt have to be required. Also even if the leader is new, they should been recruited and trained well in advance if they are motivated for the job. Any Webelos leader who needs their arm twisted is an adult who doesnt want to be there, and those are the dens we are talking about. That is where most of the 50% of Webelos loses are coming from. Special training like your training can band-aid the problem somewhat, but its not the answer to the bigger problem of unmotivated leaders.

 

I think the BSA Webelos training is sufficient if the adult is motivated to do the job. The problem is the unmotivated Webelos leaders. And, the problem isnt their training, but that they are not motivated. Why arent they motivated? Fix that and you will fix a lot of other problems as well.

 

As for preparing boys for Troops, just what else can the BSA do at a national level that they arent already doing? The Webelos leader is second most trained leader behind the Scoutmaster. See, this is where you are confusing the issues. Once a boy gets into a troop, losing that boy is the Troops responsibility, not the pack. IF we are losing more than 50% if the Webelos before crossing over into the troop, then that is a cub program problem. And that has very little to do with whether the boy is prepared for the troop program or not. If we could get just half of that 50% of the boys we are losing and they had absolutly no skills at all when they join a troop, the numbers would still jump up because we got them there. Of course we still have the first year drop problem, but that problem has very little to do with skills the boy bring anyway. We know that because the troops are loosing the skilled ones just as fast the lesser skilled problem.

 

As for Tigers, well that is a different problem that National just doesnt want to understand. And, while the Webelos program have nothing to do with the Tiger dropouts, the Tiger program is directly related to the Webelos dropouts.

 

Barry

 

[jhankins]

What I think would work?

 

Bring the ASM of new Scouts from a Troop to a Pack and have him do double duty (voluntolding!). If he can help bridge that gap, get the boys ready for Boy Scouts, introduce them to the troops, and have them doing fun outdoor activities more than sit in front of a den leader who likes to talk in a room and not camp (Which is what I saw most often as a DE) -- I bet we'd have a lot more success.

[BadenP]

Barry

 

For the most part I think we are saying the same thing, we just have different opinions on the causes. In the four councils I have been associated with most of the WDL's never took any training beyond Cub Basic for WDL's. Yes there are some great trainings out there but in many councils they offer them every other year and sometimes less than that, the excuse from council is they are not getting enough participants, why do you think that is? Listen, I loved being a WDL for 3 years, and like I said earlier many of my former webelos invited me to participate in their Eagle Court of Honor years later, so I think they had a very positive experience and were well prepared for boy scouts.

 

IMHO the main reason webelos fail to advance is like jhankins said, "WDL's who like to lecture to the kids to hear themselves talk." and like you have and I have said those WDL's who are "Too Busy" to get fully trained so the boys get bored and drop out. Those boys who drop out of boy scouts in the first year,IMO, may be due to the troop program, but more often because they were not adequately prepared and feel out of place in the troop.