Former AOL recipients drop out of Boy Scouts

[CPAMom]

Last year somewhere between 12 and 16 boys earned AOL, which was awarded in May, and should be in Boy Scouts. Of those, only 2 are in the local Boy Scout troop. One problem: Half of those boys were 4th graders. To my knowledge, none of them made it into the troop, which does not surprise me. The troop appears to be competent and has good leadership.

 

My husband, Webelos I leader, plans to have several visits with this troop between now and next February, when we hope to cross boys over. In reading the Cub Scout leader book, the thing to do is make visits both to meetings and events as much as possible before crossover.

 

Anyone know what the problem is? Is this a typical drop out rate? I do think you can push a kid thru the Cub level but probably can't push thru the Boy Scout ranks. Another guess - The dads were not behind these boys in scouting.

 

[WestCoastScouter]

Your right that it is probably a combination of things, each boy that did not continue had a different reason... I'v been told there is about a typical 50% drop out rate in the first year.

 

Maybe the boy was signed up and assisted by parents while a cub...

 

Maybe the boy is now getting more into soccer... baseball... ect.

 

Maybe the boy has a girlfriend now...

 

In my humble opinion the two most important things to do to address this problem:

 

(1) A cub program that over each year prepares the boy more for scouting. I've seen packs that never have their Webelos campout, & dont' prepare them for what a troop might be like.... ect. I've also seen Packs where the Webelos II's visit the troops 2-3 times over the 18 months... small work projects... Webelos overnights... ect..

 

(2) A good introduction into scouting when they bridge... a patrol counselor (either a ASM or a senior scout) who will take the time to explain how scouting is different than Webelos, help them earn a couple of basic merit badges... This means quality 1 on 1 time, making them feel welcome and that they belong to the troop.... a phone call if they start to fade away...

 

Imagine a 11 year old... who used to be just with boys his own age, and now is the youngest, and surrounded by boys who might be driving a car, shaving, ect... it can be a bit apprehensive for a new scout... boys will want to go where they feel wanted and have fun.

 

When you figure that the first year of scouting in a troop is most important in regards to retention... a little extra guideance might boost your retention numbers.

 

I'm sure others have tips too....

 

 

[Ltfightr]

Hum.....were the 4th and 5th graders in the same den or different dens? Did the 4th graders do anything after they rushed thru their AOL? And they did rush thru it if they got it in 4th grade. If you had 6-8 4th graders and 6-8 5th graders why didn't you have 2 Webelos dens? That would be the best.

 

We are going to have to do this in a couple of years when my son's den get to Webs and there is already a Webs den. It's not fair to the 4th graders coming in that they have to rush to catch up with the 5th graders who have already finished most of the stuff. And it's not fair to the 5th graders to have to wait on the 4th graders to catch up.

 

In my Pack, we only have 1 Webelos,he is in 5th grade, and this is his 1st year in scouts. He has had to work HARD to get his Rank and his AOL and I'm not sure if he is going to do it or not.

 

Why did you rush the Webs 1 thru AOL? IMO, you did them no favors. Webelos is where you learn what Boy Scouts is really about before you join a troop. It's where you get a firm base on how to build a fire, how to pitch a tent, how to cook over a fire. You can't DO that if you try to earn your AOL in 4th grade. Scouting is not a race.

[ScoutNut]

If you are really interested in why they did not stay in Scouts, get their contact info from your Pack, and call each one.

 

There could be many reasons why they left, finding out what their reasons were could help the program of both the Pack and the Troop.

 

A question I have about the 4th graders - Were all 6-8 of them 10.5 years old by their May award date? This means that they would all have to have turned 10 before December.

[jhankins]

The transition process to Scouting from Webelos is very important. AOL is only the first part of that, the second part is the troop teaching the boys the fun of Scouting, and introducing concepts with great skill and patience.

 

Having a den leader move on to the Troop and serve as their new patrol parent or ASM helps immensely with boy retention. The familiar face, teaching the same things just in a new way goes a long way.

 

Transition camp that first summer -- some councils call it "Tenderfoot to 1st Class" camp. I managed one of these for my local council and found it incredibly helpful to easing the boys into camping without a guardian, and building their self esteem with fun merit badges like swimming, canoeing, leatherworking, and even First Aid (It can be fun, really!).

[CPAMom]

The 4th & 5th graders were in 2 different dens; however, my understanding was that they did combine their efforts on some things. There was no Webelos II den this year for last year's 4th graders. AOL communicated, "You're done with Webelos."

 

I think the Webelos I leader was burned out. And I do see AOL at the end of 4th grade as rushed. She had served as a leader in Cub Scouts for 8 years, between her 3 boys. For that matter, the Webelos II leader was also burned out. A few of the boys were just obviously not very interested in Boy Scouts.

 

We are nearing the end of Webelos I. I hope we can interact multiple times with the local troop so that there is plenty of opportunity for building relationships ahead of cross-over.

[bbender]

As to why Cubs don't continue on, agreed (along the lines of "all Scouting is local"), with the concept of "get their contact info from your Pack, and call each one". Frankly, from a "why they didn't go on", every one may well have a different story, and some of them are just individual stories. Speculation won't work -- only hard information will. More importantly, we can often learn as much from our failures (why they didn't stay on) than our successes.

 

And a lesson could be that if you have a bunch of young, but qualifying, AoL recipients (that is, they're old enough, even though in 4th Grade), yer gonna need more supervision (ideally, Troop Guide types, but probably also some distantly hovering ASMs) to be sure that they "stick" in the more chaotic Troop environment.

 

I look back on my Tigers/Wolves (where over 50% remain in Scouting somewhere now that they approach their 3rd Summer Camp in Boy Scout Troops), and as to those who don't remain, the reasons are Sports, Sports, Moved Away (so I really don't know if they stuck), and Church Activities (Dad is the Pastor, Mom runs activities).

 

And transition is a big big thing. Both in terms of continuity and in making it clear how it's different, and steps up. To that end, we're looking at our third year of a "Webelos Winter Camp" where we go to a state park that is (a) challenging enough to be interesting for Boy Scouts (the older ones can do some serious hiking up/down some N. Georgia mountains), and (b) safe enough so that no Webelo should have a bad experience (large cabin with appropriate accomodations, including wood burning stove, should it be really cold). HUGE success last two years, and Webelos and Troop members each want to return. Webelos moms & dads also very impressed by how the Troop operates (e.g., SPL organizes and SM coaches vs. Cubmaster and Den Leader "do it all").

 

We've also overlapped on some other events (like a cave camping trip) where the Webelos start to look up to the extra things that the older Scouts do.

 

All in all . . . transition is important . . . gotta make it seem like a great adventure . . .

 

And for those looking at some of the baser reasons to remain, I guess ya can remind them that while some folks along the adult trail will look at yer son's resume and say "wow . . . you're an Eagle Scout?!!!", I suspect few hiring decisions are decided based on "he earned his AoL!" ;^)

[Engineer61]

Hi CPAMom,

 

Just offhand I can think of any number of issues that keep boys out of Scouting.

 

1) Interest in other activities. (Music, Sports)

 

2) Tiring of Scouting, by either the Scout or the Parents. BS takes significantly more time commitment than Cub Scouts.

 

3) Cost....this is the worst economy of my adult life and Scouting can be expensive. (Gear, fees, multiple uniforms, etc.)

 

4) Demographic issues.

 

5) Dislike of the "Patrol Method" by parents or the Scouts.

 

I'm sure there are others, but I don't think there is any one item to point at.

[Engineer61]

Drop out rate:

 

My Scout's drop out rate at AOL was 50%. They were all 5th graders...but I expect that to be typical.

 

No, you cannot push a Scout through Boy Scouts....and quite frankly you shouldn't.

[Crew21_Adv]

CPAMom,

 

Greetings!

 

There is a drop in membership between Webelos and Scouting. What the actual percentage numbers are, I don't know.

 

Regarding your first question. Anyone know what the problem is?

 

Some fellow forum members have given a few thought as to why 1st year Scouts (and families) go elsewhere. There are plenty of other things to occupy a 1st year Scouts time.

 

Here are my thoughts, as to the problems.. Not enough buy in, no advancement (camping), and no attention.

 

Here are my thoughts to resolve some of the problems.

There usually is not enough "buy in" from the 1st year Scouts and families. I would expect that a May AoL and Bridging Ceremony is far too late. The 1st year Scouts would not register for Summer Camp in less that 2 months. Dropping out of the troop (or watching attendance diminish) would probably occur before the next School year starts. The boys that dont go to Summer Camp, will go off for a family Summer vacation, and never return to Scouting.

 

Advancement between Scout thru First Class is camping/outdoor intensive. It is after First Class, that merit badge program and leadership become paramount. Honestly, I have met a few Scouting parents, whom were too afraid to let their son camp outside in the wood, and don't even mention about camping for a week. But the simple fact is, If they don't camp, they don't advance. If they don't advance, they lose interest and might as well stay at home play World of Warcraft or Madden 2010, and listen to the IPOD. 1st year Scouts need to camp, nearly every month.

 

I usually recommend AoL in the Fall, Bridging no later than March, and making Summer Camp deposit by April.

Finally Not enough attention. The 1st year Scouts are not Cubs any more. They are now Scouts. Parents and Webelos Leaders should be invited to serve on the Committee or as an ASM. But Troops often tell them, they cannot sign accomplishments in their own Scouts handbooks.

 

So who give attention to the 1st year Scouts? If they are camping and attending troop meetings their first Spring, Summer and Fall seasons. The Troop should camp and have weekly meetings with a plan that reinforces learning and advancement. The Senior Patrol Leader, the Troop Guides, the Instructors, and their Patrol Leaders should be paying attention to the advancement of all Scouts. The Scouts should be taught(learn), tested, reviewed and then recognized. Part of the advancement method begins with the troop leadership.

 

Each PLC, my troop ask our Patrol Leaders to report on advancements and to monitor their patrol members advancement status (handbooks).

 

Hopefully, your retention next year will be even greater, and more 1st year Scouts will stay and continue their trail.

 

 

Scouting Forever and Venture On!

Crew21 Adv

 

[Eagledad]

>>Anyone know what the problem is? Is this a typical drop out rate?

[OneHour]

4th grade is a little bit early to receive AoL, correct? Not impossible but we usually divide our webelos years up into 1.5 years. Even with Fall/Winter cross-over, the boys are 5th graders (granted ... young 5th graders)! Many of our Packs cross-over in February/March time frame. In our immediate area, the drop out rate for Webelos is 10% out of about 25-30 webelos. This has to do with sport vs. scouting committment. The key ingredient in Webelos participating from my observation is how active the den leader is. As we all know, if the den is fortunate to have a good and fun den leader, then the den is more than likely to continue forward with vigor. On the flip side, if you have a burnout (as Barry indicated) den leader who just going through the motion to "get it over with," then you will find that the den will dissipate quickly. Everyone in the den will see it as a burden. My youngest son's den right now is full of energy! This is the same with the other 2 webelos dens in our pack and 3 from our brother pack. That's 40-45 webelos. They could hardly wait to get into boy scout next year. As in boy scout, it all has to do with the program. It is how it is being done as well. For example, my youngest son's den just finish our Handyman pin. They were in awe with what they got to do ... working on a car! The neat thing to them is to have a 16 years old Star scout there to teach them about car (and learn about it at the same time). This week, they get to build a toolbox with the full compliment of hammer, nail, plier, ... Every summer, we have 7-8 out of the 9 boys attend Day Camp and they could not wait until next year's! The best gauge is your own son! After every den meeting, I would ask my son how was the den meeting! Right now, he enjoys the den meetings much more than the Pack meetings. So ... ask him. Do a "scoutmaster conference" with him! Ask him what he would like and dislike about Webelos year ... do the same with the other cubs! That's how I and my Den Chief change our plan with the den ... it's how they like or dislike the den meetings.

 

Webelos year (1.5 of it) introduces the cub to a lot of skills that the boy scouts do as well as the initial patrol method (if the den leader is willing to work with it along with a Den Chief). It can be an exciting time for the Webelos ... campout with different troops, campouts on their own, not doing arts and crafts, more games, etc. The 9 Webelos in my den, given a chance, will cross over today. Of course, having a scoutmaster for one of the troop as a den leader tends to help as well! But ... we will wait until next February ... after our final pinewood derby race!

 

Good luck!

 

1Hour

 

ps: By the way, the boys in my den (and other dens) are in soccer, basketball, and baseball! I know. I coach some of them! So sport is not really the reason! The time can be shared!(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[jhankins]

Having a son as Webelos right now (and he's almost done with 4th grade), sending him to a troop at this moment would be a bad idea. He even knows he's not ready after attending the day's events at Camporee this weekend. The 18 month guideline is a good one. It's not about the activity badge in itself, it's about having FUN earning the badge, and not even really noticing that you're establishing the building blocks for that first merit badge.

 

Every district in our council has a rough time with the W2S transition. I think when I heard the statistic, we lose 70% of our cubs during this time.

[BadenP]

From the very good points others have brought up I think it is pretty clear that a 2 year Webelos program is too long to hold a boys interest and needs to be totally revamped, this is not a race to the arrow of light which too many webelos leaders make it. If the transistion stats are ever going to improve National has to rethink the two year Webelos program. First idea maybe the boy can not be eligible to earn the AOL until the 5th grade,second, maybe in year two emphasize more activity with the troop so they can enter the troop with not only the AOL but with the scout rank badge as well, both of which should be restricted to fifth grade WebII scouts.

 

Boy scout membership nationally has been on a steady decline for over 10 years now, cubs are not transitioning into troops like they should, and National remains clueless how to solve this problem. WDL's need much more support, a better thought out program, and specialized training from both council and National if this trend is ever going to reverse itself.

[jhankins]

It's not just the WDL that needs support, it's the troop that needs a liaison that understands how to transition a Webelos into the program.