Parents pushing Scouts

[Engineer61]

"Oh Engineer61, blame your parents, blame your teachers, you can even blame your little league coach, but don't tell a fellow engineer that cynicism is a result of our profession. "

 

So, you mean to tell me that the first time your calculations are correct, you're done? Welcome to Apollo I, the Swinging Bridge and the Toyota Prius!

 

LOL

 

[Engineer61]

Thanks for all the other insight folks.

[Scoutfish]

Engineer...

I'd never tell you that your felings or opinomn is wrong. They are YOUR feelings and opinions.

 

BUT.... I think the circumstances that you might be basing your feelings on can be wrong.

 

 

 

 

So I ask, whci part of scouting suggests, recogmends, or implys tha parenst should push their sons until it becopmes a burden instead of fun?

 

As an engineer, I want to tell you about an old Hag the Horrible comic I saw once. One of the viking warriors employeees .. or whatever you call them, comes over to Hagar and says: " We can't figure out the problem with the wagon."In the background, you see 3 or 4 vikings scratching their head while looking at different parts of the wagon.

 

In the next square, it is a bigger view of the wagon, the emplyees and a horse that is dead as a doornail because of 3 arrows sticking in various parts of its body.

 

STUPID WAGON!!!!

 

So, is it the scouting that does the harm, or the parents who don't understand the program?

 

To answer your question as asked,, I can't give a black and white answer as there are different types of pushing at verious degrees of seriousnes and different situations.

 

To say do parents cause more harm that good by not understanding how scouting works or what the program is meant to do...YES! you betcha. Lots of parents probably ruin Scouting before it ever has a chance to benefit Jr.

 

[DYB-Mike]

So, is it the scouting that does the harm, or the parents who don't understand the program?

 

I dont think the parents understanding of the program enters into the equation. A former Eagle Scout and Wood Badge trained scoutmaster could be just as guilty as parents who dont have a clue about the Scouting program (although I would hope not). The issue is making a boy do something he really doesnt have any interest in, no matter what the parents motivation is. The same could be said for sports or a musical instrument.

 

Sometimes I feel guilty of pushing. Every so often I ask my scout son (almost 13) if he still wants to continue with Scouts and he answers yes. I sometimes wonder if he says this just to make me happy, but then he comes in excited about something scout-related so I guess he is sincere. He says he wants to earn Eagle. So while he appears to be interested in Scouting, his attitude sometimes causes me to make sure I question him on his progress. Im happy to say he generally gets things done on his own initiative as it should be.

 

My scout son also plays the saxophone. He says he enjoys it and his teachers say he has talent, but my wife and I are forever reminding him to practice. School work often requires many reminders (or is it pushes?) as well. We make an effort to leave him to his own devices, but occasionally chance questions (turning over the rock) lead to discoveries of work that is undone and due tomorrow. In the end, my wife and I are left agonizing over whether were pushing scout son too hard or just helping to make sure a lackadaisical almost-teen gets things done.

 

From a Cub perspective there are times I wish a parent would keep pushing. Ive had examples of where the parents have told me that their boys had to be dragged to the meetings, but once there they had a blast. Eventually there reaches a point when these parents get tired of pushing or use juniors reluctance as an easy out to having to schlep to a meeting. Of course Ive seen the other side of the coin: boys excited to join but dont because the parents couldnt be bothered or are afraid of the commitment.

 

YIS

Mike

[Engineer61]

I agree Mike, there is a difference between "reminders" and "pushing".

 

"So, is it the scouting that does the harm, or the parents who don't understand the program?

 

I think it's possible to be a combination of both, but largely I expect it to be a parent (and Scout leadership) issue, especially if the kid feels boxed in between the two.

 

"The issue is making a boy do something he really doesnt have any interest in, no matter what the parents motivation is. The same could be said for sports or a musical instrument."

 

Agreed...and that is the fundamental point.

 

"Sometimes I feel guilty of pushing. Every so often I ask my scout son (almost 13) if he still wants to continue with Scouts and he answers yes. I sometimes wonder if he says this just to make me happy, but then he comes in excited about something scout-related so I guess he is sincere. He says he wants to earn Eagle. So while he appears to be interested in Scouting, his attitude sometimes causes me to make sure I question him on his progress. Im happy to say he generally gets things done on his own initiative as it should be."

 

Maybe the question parents might want to ask is, "Is there something you would like to do other than Scouting?" Giving them the opportunity to replace Scouting with something else that they think of.

 

My Scout has (so far) not said a single word about wanting to achieve Eagle, or hinted to any excitement about any activity other than Camping and Shooting. For meetings, he is almost always dragging his feet to get out the door and grumbles all the way...and grumbles more when he gets home. None of the project work gets done on his own initiative.

 

Ironically, both of my boys are also musicians ... both play trombone and both are largely automatic in practicing and participation. The older has been involved in two honor groups as well.

 

My oldest was flatly not interested in Scouting when I brought it up...he's very much into athletics, but not on a competitive level, strictly recreational. About baseball, he said last night, "If all I wanted was to win, I'd be on a competitive club team. I'd rather have fun at it." I guess that speaks volumes.

 

 

 

 

[Engineer61]

So, here's a question for the SM's, ASM's whoever.

 

Have you ever had a Scout that didn't enjoy it, and gone to the parents and said,

 

"Johnny really doesn't want to be in Scouts, and I think it would be better for Johnny if he stopped."

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>"Johnny really doesn't want to be in Scouts, and I think it would be better for Johnny if he stopped."

[bacchus]

"Have you ever had a Scout that didn't enjoy it, and gone to the parents and said, "Johnny really doesn't want to be in Scouts, and I think it would be better for Johnny if he stopped."

 

Are there any school teachers on this board? Have you ever gone to the parents and said, "Jimmy really doesn't want to be in school, and I think it would be better for Jimmy if he stopped?"

 

I know you aren't going to like this analogy, however, think about that student who doesn't graduate who changes his mind when he matures at 18. What about the scout who decides at 18 he would really like to earn Eagle?

 

I think the solution is not to cut a boy loose from scouts as it is to make it more enjoyable for him. Is there a reason he doesn't like your troop? Is he being hazed? Is he not being challenged?

[Twocubdad]

Yes, night before last, as a matter of fact.

 

My experience is that boys go through the "I hate Scouts" phase around the 7th grade. That's the time boys really start to figure out who they are and what they want to do. There is a tremendous amount of peer pressure to be one of the cool kids. Most boys would eat broken glass before admitting they're in Scouts.

 

My advice to parents it to push the boys along for a year. Parents are still responsble to make -- and I mean MAKE -- their sons do what they (the parents) think is best for them. Yes, baccus, the same as with school, church, going to bed on time, eating their veggies and brushing their teeth. But let's keep this in perspecive. Scouting isn't school. For one, I know of no state with compulsory Scouting laws. I tell parents that after a year of pushing a kid to go to Scouts, it time to step back reassess. After a year, we're just making the boy, the parents and the Scout leaders miserable. If Scouting isn't that boy's thing, move on and find something else.

 

And no, I'm not going to change the program to accommdate that one boy. If we are running the program as it should (and in that I consider stuff like hazing) and I have 60 others who are thriving and enjoying the program, why would we change?

[jeff-o]

And the line I have used many times:

 

"Scouting isn't for everyone."

 

If the boy hates going outdoors, he's not going to be happy in scouts! If the boy doesn't like to get dirty, he's not going to have much fun. If the boy doesn't like physical contact and male competition, he's not going to enjoy his scouting experience.

[bacchus]

"And no, I'm not going to change the program to accommdate that one boy. If we are running the program as it should (and in that I consider stuff like hazing) and I have 60 others who are thriving and enjoying the program, why would we change?"

 

Sounds like you have a solid program. Good work.

 

[DYB-Mike]

If the boy doesn't like physical contact and male competition

 

Are we talking about football or Scouts?

 

YIS

Mike