Appropriate discipline for disrespect

[ScoutNut]

Wow, you feel that "14 years of family scouting is essentially down the drain" because you left this one Troop? So the 14 years your sons were in the Scouting program they learned nothing? It made no impact on them at all? The 14 years you helped other Scouts receive the Scouting program means nothing to you, or them?

 

None of these Scouts (yours, or others) benefited from being in the Scouting program?

 

Wow.

 

I take it, since there has been so little benefit in being in Scouting for the past 14 years, that you are pulling all of your family's registrations (you, husband, and sons) from the BSA completely? Are you shutting down the Crew completely too?

 

Again, Wow.

 

By the way, BSA has no Religious Merit Badge.

 

 

[moosetracker]

While looking for a new troop, don't just look for a troop that is exactly what you are leaving (during it's good times).. You will not find the perfect sister ship..

 

It would be great if a troop was healthy, but did a few things different then your old group.. You can't go in with the mindset of changing it, but if you adapt to how they run, you may be able to take your 14 years of knowledge and slowly offer a suggestion or two from your old troop, that will fix a problem they recognize, but don't know how to fix.

 

Also if a troop is small and either starting out, or on a recovery from the down cycle wave that all units go through. You and your husband could be of great service with your knowledge to get their program off the ground.. Just, with these type of groups you want a clear understanding from them of their vision of the future.. This was troop #2, that did not work out for us. Their vision was to make it into a boys & girls club and did not want to run a troop.. They didn't want the boys to hold positions (unless in name only for rank, but most times they weren't interested in advancement either), the adults wanted to do the cooking and organizing for all events, the adults refused to get trained. Kids & people were nice, but it was simply not a scouting program, and never would be.

 

Basically if the troop is not completely up to speed. But the dream of it's members it to get it there, you can help them get there. If they are not good, yet the troop is happy with it's weekly program of dodgeball or Adult leadership, you can't fix it, so those are the ones you need to pass on.

 

But, yes you do have your Venturing program. So if the next troop is not the best match, your younger son can just move to Venturing when he hits 8th grade or age 14.

 

As ScoutNut said, your sons have learned alot from scouting, and I would imagine so have you. We have a mother whose son is about to turn 18 in our troop.. A rocket would need to be strapped to him at this point for him to make Eagle.. The mothers comment was similar. "13 years of scouting down the drain".. My comment was, "Your son has learned alot from scouting and has had a great time being in it. Whether he makes Eagle or not, he has accomplished alot through the program."

[evmori]

I concur with ScoutNut! WOW!

[Beavah]

I don't know what I could have done to change it without forcing my son to compromise his opinions.

 

Yah, heaven forbid a parent should ever force their precious teen into compromising his opinions.

 

Yeh are the parent, right?

 

As for da younger boys, if yeh can't trust da ASM, CC, etc. (which yeh said repeatedly that you can't), then why would yeh let 'em take your boys on outings? And why would they agree? From where I sit, da ASM and other adults don't trust that you as a parent will be supportive of da decisions they have to make for discipline or safety in the field. As a result, they don't want that responsibility. In this day and age, who can blame 'em?

 

Yeh might consider a commercial, for-fee outfitter or service in your area instead of scouting, with a paid staff. Check your school district, YMCA, etc. They might be a better fit.

 

I MISS MY TROOP, I MISS THE FRIENDS I MADE OVER 10 YEARS PLUS

 

Yeh can't have friends if yeh s*** all over 'em whenever your teenager acts like a teenager.

 

However, if in fact all the stuff about wantin' to get the ASM and CC fired and their kids thrown out was just emotion of the moment and yeh really do like this troop and its program, then sit down with junior and tell him he's grounded until he repairs his relationship with all the troop's adults. No excuses, no phony "principles", no life until Mr. ASM and Mr. CC come to tell you that they're really impressed by how junior has changed. Then you go apologize and repair those relationships yourself.

 

And promise as a New Year's resolution for 2011 that you'll never, ever compromise those longstandin' relationships again for fear of disciplining your kid.

 

Beavah

 

[Stosh]

It might be sad to leave one's troop behind and all the long-term friends, etc. but if we are building leaders with strong moral characters that think for themselves and don't compromise their beliefs, it may be the price this boy has to pay. I've been in this position in the past. Not a comfortable place to be....

 

And where's all the adults of strong leadership that have risen above the fray and personal hurt feelings to work with this boy? Everyone seems to think the victim are a hand full of adults who haven't earned the respect they need to work with this boy. Or -- ???? maybe the boy is right..... Naw, 14 year old boys are always wrong.

 

A child must always respect an adult!!! This is the mantra I grew up with and this is what every child abuser and/or pedophile relies on.... I've worked with kids for 40+ years and 90% of the time they are full of crap with their stories, but I always have my ear to the ground listening very carefully for those other 10% out there. Where there's smoke, there's fire. ALWAYS check out the whole story!!! Before everyone jumped down this boy's throat and told him to apologize, did any of the adults ever ask him why he held the opinion that this adult hadn't earned his respect?

 

Your mileage may vary,

 

Stosh

 

 

[5scoutmom]

UPDATE:

 

The meeting to discuss my 2 youngest sons' return to the troop was held in early January. The meeting ended with the COR saying he would like to see all 3 boys back in. CC and ASM said they would get back to us.

 

Three weeks later, having not heard back from them, we took the 2 youngest boys to another troop. Two of the 3 leaders know my expelled son from summer camp and the 3rd has only heard good things about them. My son is still not interested in being in a troop but is happy in the venture crew. We are hoping he will join this new troop.

 

Today was scout sabbath at the CO of our crew, as well as our former troop and the pack. In years past, Scoutdad has cooked bacon, sausage, eggs, peppers and onions and the like for the congregation of our CO to say thank you. In November, the pack (Scoutdad is ACM and webelos leader) and crew voted to allocate money to cover this. The troop refused to participate and said it would take care of bagels and coffee. Over the past month, CC, ASM and the advisor all put enormous pressure on the CM to tell Scoutdad he wouldn't be allowed to cook and only bagels should be served. CM said that the Pack committee had voted and that was that.

 

Advisor showed up early, came into the kitchen and stormed out when he saw us cooking. One of the scouts who is good friends with my sons and is always at my house was helping; advisor yelled at him to get in to the church for the service.

 

CC showed up with younger son; son who is SPL had a review course to attend and did not come. CC did not enter the kitchen, did not say hello to me or Scoutdad and when the service was over, dragged his son out. The boy wanted some bacon and his dad loudly told him that he could not have any.

 

ASM had a family commitment and did not attend.

 

Two moms asked where my boys have been; their sons are 6th graders like my younges and one has 2 younger boys in the pack. She told me she is not happy with what is going on. I told them about the new troop we joined. My sons were very impressed by the fact that the leaders did not hover over the activities and allowed the boys to lead the meeting. It was something new for them and for us.

 

Seeing the behavior of these adults was confirmation that we made the right call. We were weloomed to the committee of the new troop and the boys will be attending their first camping trip on the anniversary of last year's disastrous trip.

 

One last point - in the other thread, someone said that my son had made his comments to CC's son. That is incorrect. It was CC himself who asked my son if he respected him. My son gave his answer. The only people there at the time were my two sons, CC and ASM. CC's son only heard about what my son said because his father told him. I should also point out that my son had been in the pack and troop with this man for TEN years before this and had never said word one to him about respect and he never would have if he had not been asked a direct question. I said to him recently, why didn't you just lie or deflect the question and he said "You and dad have taught me to be honest. He asked me a question and I gave him an answer. It is not my fault he didn't like what I had to say but I will not apologize for it even it means I never make Eagle Scout. I was asked, I didn't volunteer the information, I don't know what I did wrong besides hurt the feelings of someone who asked for it."

 

In our family, the subject is now closed. We will never be part of our former troop as long as these men are associated with it. I am just happy we found (after looking at about a half dozen others) a troop we feel comfortable with.

 

And, by the way, I don't really feel that 14 years of scouting is down the drain. That was just immense frustration speaking. I am happy to be back in active scouting mode again.

[Beavah]

Yah, thanks for takin' the time to update us, 5scoutmom. Lots of times I've seen things go very well for families like yours when they find a new program.

 

Don't look back, it will only let da former experience shadow the new one. Let all that old stuff go and just have fun supporting your sons new scouting home.

 

BG