Pranks

[studentscout]

I share the sentiment that a prank like this is terribly wrong. As I noted earlier, in this state if a parent decided to make the call, a sheriff might even view it as a felony. And I might agree with him, thinking back to pranks that I suffered from older boys. Evmori, my reaction was shame and anger and an impulse to quit scouting. It still makes me feel that way when I remember. And if I ever am asked about the 'character' of the people who did those things, I will be less able to say anything positive about it.

 

Pranks and practical jokes all share a common characteristic: they all involve a deception. If anyone can educate me as to the positive value of deception as part of scouting, I'd like to learn it.

[Knot Head]

If my son was the butt of a hazing incident like this I'd be furious.

 

If he was the one doing the hazing to a younger scout I'd be twice as mad.

 

In no uncertain terms we explain that our troop has a "zero tolerance" policy for hazing. We explain it to webelo parents & webelos that visit. We cover it at orientation. We remind scouts before campouts. We give examples. We explain the consequences.

 

Anyone pulling a stunt like this in our troop would know this was an immediate expulsion. There would be no doubt in their mind they were way over the line trying to influence a younger scout to do something like this.

 

If a scout in your troop did something like this and honestly didn't think it was wrong... then wow, rethink your position in light of the scout law.(This message has been edited by knot head)

[evmori]

In no uncertain terms we explain that our troop has a "zero tolerance" policy for hazing.

 

Guess none of the kids in your unit will be in the OA since getting in fits the definition of hazing. Zero tolerance policies are a great way of not dealing with something.

[Knot Head]

Since you mention it I did investigate the OA ordeal and how they squared the "no hazing" policy in BSA. They were happy to explain. I am comfortable that *voluntarily* eating a smaller than usual breakfast & lunch and performing some service to the commuity isnt much of an "ordeal" much less hazing. We endure more of an ordeal on some of our backpacking trips where we do conservation work than what scouts typically endure at OA ordeal. Since the OA candidates go in knowing what will happen during the weekend and that they wont be the butt of jokes like drinking urine either by trickery or against their will we feel pretty good about the "ordeal".

 

Maybe youre trying to be funny in your response but Im pretty comfortable in my position that older scouts guys who should be leaders are not acting very helpful, friendly, courteous or kind when they attempt or hatch plans to get younger scouts to drink urine. They clearly arent acting obedient since they know this is over a line we have already established in our troop.

 

This has been a good thread. We discussed this in the PLC last night and the troop leadership was mortified that older scouts would pull a stunt like this. The patrols leaders made it a point to go back to their patrols to discuss the scout law and how we strive to treat other scouts. So the topic of the thread was beneficial to our troop.

 

[evmori]

Since you mention it I did investigate the OA ordeal and how they squared the "no hazing" policy in BSA. They were happy to explain. I am comfortable that *voluntarily* eating a smaller than usual breakfast & lunch and performing some service to the commuity isnt much of an "ordeal" much less hazing.

 

There is no "voluntarily" about it. It is required. There is also a "no talking policy" involved. And the service isn't to the community, it's to the OA. And it is an initiation which by definition is hazing.

[artjrk]

Maybe OA ordeals are different in different areas. But from my current experience, the ordeal I went through was NOT hazing by any sense of the word.

 

First. before one even got there, they were told to expect that it would not be a traditional easy campout. Bring tools to aid in the service project.

 

Upon arrival, and after setting up everyone is introduced to there Scout leader and the small group they will be participating with and to get their bedroll.

 

The preordeal goes over everything that will be going on that weekend. Silence/sleeping under the stars/mock fasting/service/introspection. All symbolic gestures not overtaxing.

 

Then all are given the opportunity to leave with NO ridicule.

 

The breakfast was more than some of our kids already do.

 

The service was for the site, which was usually not a Boy Scout facility. (service to the community)

 

 

[Eagledad]

Sadly I understand evmoris point after reading the post that is equating Pranks and Bullying as the same thing. In most cases pranks are harmless acts played for the fun of everyone involved. Bullying are acts intended to harm. Bullys might use pranks to do harm, but not all pranks are bullying. If we start considering a prank and bullying as the same thing, there is no end to legitimizing simple acts of fun as harmful. Singing happy birthday to a scout comes to mind. Im starting to fear we will eventually require one adult accompany every scout in all scouting activities while at the same time requiring a bubble suit so they cant be touched. Whoops, actually two adults per scout for youth protection. I guess it is the culture, but Im sure glad I grew up during a better time.

 

Barry

 

[OldGreyEagle]

I guess if it takes 2 adults to be sure no one "pranks" a scout into drinking pee, then Boy Scouts are pretty much out of the Charactor Building business

 

I need examples of pranks that are harmless acts played for the fun of everyone involved.

 

I realize I don't have much of a sense of humor over this. Search OldGreyEagle and snipe hunts if you don't know what did me in. I want to understand.

 

 

[evmori]

Singing happy birthday to a scout comes to mind.

 

While singing happy birthday isn't bullying or hazing, having happy birthday sung to you by a restaurant staff while they clap their hands in a crowded establishment could be considered embarrassing

[studentscout]

Evmori, by your warped thought process, Lent could be considered hazing. I agree with OldGreyEagle. Again, I would like for someone to explain how deception is a positive component of scouting.

[Eagledad]

Short sheeting, plastic Icecube with a fly, rubber spider on sleeping bag, a rock in the backpack are off the top of my head.

 

Barry

 

 

[Knot Head]

>>There is no "voluntarily" about it. It is required. There is also a "no talking policy" involved. And the service isn't to the community, it's to the OA. And it is an initiation which by definition is hazing.

[evmori]

Yes OA membership is voluntary. Once you are elected and you accept that election, you must go through an initiation. Initiations are by definition hazing.

 

Lent is not hazing! And if you think it is then there is a serious problem.

[asm1429]

Last Summer at camp they did the lost and found at lunch, a room full of 600 hungry souls. All Scouts who had items on the L&F table had to come up then all sang "Reunited". Cleared this with the MC of the show first, then went to town and purchaced an oversized pair of pink panties, while in uniform of course, took them back to camp, had my 11 y.o.'s write our SPL's name on them and filled the the guys in on the plan. Dropped unmentionables of at the table in a bag and let the MC know. He was great, prefect timing, Needless to say you had 600 Scouts who had a BIG laugh. On the walk to the chow hall before lunch, I told our SPL that a Scout was many things, but mostly he was a "Good sport!" That was a prank, In my book.

 

Maybe the OA should do something like that, maybe use a bra, high heels, maybe a nice little sun dress, you know, mix it up a bit, keep it interesting.

 

Sorry, just try'in to light'in the mood.

 

Thanks again!!!

[Beavah]

Yah, I've been da butt of many a great prank, and seen even more at camps.

 

Remember when a group of scouts lofted my entire tent, platform and all, up a tree (not with me in it). Said it was where I had to sleep from then on so that they couldn't hear my snoring.

 

Another year they got up early, snuck in and swapped out my uniform parts with those of a fellow who was a much more well-rounded scouter than I. Without my morning coffee, I confess I was completely confused at why my pants had stretched so much da previous day/night that they just wouldn't stay up, and why my shirt tails were so long...

 

Had a fellow once serve me a lobster that he had actually chilled and then painted so it looked cooked. Knowin' I'm sorta a talkative fellow he kept me yappin' while the creature warmed up a bit, so when I went to start eatin' the darn thing moved!. I must have jumped 12 feet.

 

Yah, I get that some adults frown on all varieties of pranks. In units that do pranks, I have seen it build real comraderie. I still tell those stories and lots of others, eh? And remember da perpetrators with affection.

 

Beavah