Pranks

[Eagle92]

EDITED: Sorry wrong reply(This message has been edited by Eagle92)

[evmori]

You're kidding you tasted it or you are kidding it was urine?

[SctDad]

OK so you are going to punish the younger scout when he came to you with the report. He did not follow through with the prank and he took measures to prevent a major embarrassment. So why is he being punished.

 

As for the older scouts. An apology is in an order. And some kind of reprimand is in order. Is kicking them out really gonna work. The intent was there, but there was no damages. So you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that the older boys were going to let someone drink it.

 

So what would I do for this. Formal apology to all of those that were involved. THis does not need to be a press conference.

 

Also, how about letting the boys understand what a prank or practical joke really is. I know that we have had several discussions as to what they are. I was talking to someone the other day and we were discussing this.

 

Here is the an example of some of the things that were done to a young scout during his first summercamp. I agree that these pranks went to far as a whole. They took his towel while he was in the shower, and there were a couple other things that I cannot remember at this time. Basically they pulled multiple pranks on this young lad and he had enough and ended up going home. Now if this had been just one prank, like taking the towel, that had been done a couple of times in the week, maybe the SM could have helped the young lad by saying 'take two towels or bring it IN the shower with you in a ziplock to beat them at their own game' But the key is to have the scouts that are playing the practical joke let the young lad know that it is in fun and include him on the next one. There must always be some kind of control measure in plase to avoid total embarassment.

 

 

[studentscout]

This is in the news lately around here:

http://www.thestate.com/2010/03/22/1212352/sc-high-school-students-accused.html

 

These students pulled a similar prank and are about to become felons.

 

"Six South Carolina juveniles face charges after authorities say they contaminated a 15-year-old classmate's drink with saliva, urine and pubic hair.

 

The Greenville County Sheriff's Office released a statement on Monday saying the four boys and two girls face a felony charge of malicious tampering of a food item in connection with the incident on March 18. All six are 15 years old and are students at Blue Ridge High School."

[OldGreyEagle]

so SctDad, its ok to teach the younger scouts that taking other peoples property is ok, as long as the victim is included in the next theft?

[The Blancmange]

evmori wrote:

 

And this is not hazing. Not all pranks are hazing.

You're right, there is some grey area when it comes to the definition of hazing. But there is no reasonable definition of hazing that would not include inducing someone to drink a bodily waste. This most certainly is hazing; it is a clear BSA rule violation and probably illegal in most places.

[Exibar]

So SCTDAD, what if it was your son's towel that was stolen and he had to run back to his tent naked? What if it was your WIFE's towel and she had to run back to the tent naked? Would it still be funny then? Now what if the tent was 500 yards away from the showers, through the main gathering spot? Would it still be funny then?

 

In this case it's Urine in a bottle.... What if it was your son that was given the bottle of Urine to drink ans perhaps told it was Apple Juice? I'll bet that you'd want the perpetrators of this "prank" severely reprimanded up to being thrown out of the troop....

 

Theft of any kind, and pranks are not allowed for good reason in scouting.

Practical jokes are only funny for those that are harassing someone else with one. They're rarely funny to the victim and thusly not allowed in scouting.

Scouting should be a safe haven, away from harassment like that, period end of story. There is no way I would allow anything like that to occur, nor should it be allowed to occur, this just adds undue stress to the victim of such needless jokes. Look at the boy you referenced, he was so upset he had to go home to avoid it. How is this following the Scout Law???? right, it IS NOT....

 

sorry, please don't take this as a personal attack, it is NOT meant as such.

 

Mike B

[zippyboro]

from stophazing.org webbsite"

 

"Hazing refers to any activity expected of someone joining a group (or to maintain full status in a group) that humiliates, degrades or risks emotional and/or physical harm, regardless of the person's willingness to participate. In years past, hazing practices were typically considered harmless pranks or comical antics associated with young men in college fraternities.

 

Today we know that hazing extends far beyond college fraternities and is experienced by boys/men and girls/women in school groups, university organizations, athletic teams, the military, and other social and professional organizations. Hazing is a complex social problem that is shaped by power dynamics operating in a group and/or organization and within a particular cultural context.

 

Hazing activities are generally considered to be: physically abusive, hazardous, and/or sexually violating. The specific behaviors or activities within these categories vary widely among participants, groups and settings."

 

Evemori... THIS was hazing.

[SctDad]

Exibar

 

When you travel across camp to shower, do you go just wearing a towel. I know that I don't. And that is the way that I teach my boys to do things. Of course now things are different at my camp because we have private shower rooms with a changing area. I take my clothes and my wash kit. What would my kid or wife do. THey would get dressed after drying off as best they can. I have seen my son do it before. He can be pretty resourcful. Do

 

As for the urine, i think that the younger boy had no intention of making anyone drink it or he would have not gone to the SM. He knew that what he was doing was wrong, and he knew that if he went to the SM it would be unpopular, but he did what was right in his mind and stopped the prank before it got serious.

 

I think if you punish the boy who took the prank to the SM, then next time he may not. He was being HONEST, KIND AND TRUSTWORTHY. That is the way that I am understanding the original post.

[artjrk]

Rereading the OP.

 

The intended victim brought the bottle to the scout leader. Then the perpetrators were gathered. Only then did the younger scout who passed on the bottle to the victim confess up and take the blame.

 

So yes he should be held accountable.

 

The older scouts should also be held to the same degree of reprimand, possibly more.

 

Expulsion from the troop could be justified for the younger and older scouts, but in my opinion especially the older ones who should know better.

 

 

This whole issue is more than a prank that went too far. Taking of one's towel, just a prank. Doing it repeatedly, more than a prank. I myself can enjoy a good prank but as I tell my boys, "if the other person isn't laughing, it isn't a prank.

 

example: At camp two Scouts during the day switched all the bedding of two leaders (also happened to be their parents) When the leaders came back to the site, the looks of confusion on their faces were priceless. As they started to comprehend the situation they started laughing. No harm, no damage, no foul.

 

[Eagledad]

>>Expulsion from the troop could be justified for the younger and older scouts, but in my opinion especially the older ones who should know better.

[Lisabob]

I don't know that I have seen anything in the thread thus far that indicates the troop adults actively encouraged such behavior in order to reduce the number of young fellows in the troop. Could that be true, sure, but I would not want to jump to that conclusion.

 

I think some adults really do not fully comprehend the impact of certain kinds of "pranks" or "needling" or "jokes" on the intended recipient. It can be easy for people who have never seen the way it changes someone who has experienced on-going harassment, to say "oh that was nothing serious." Well, yeah. Maybe in isolation, one thing that happens could be written off, if you don't think too much about it. And that's how folks tend to think of many types of harassment. Maybe because it is easier than actually confronting and stopping situations like this.

 

But as anybody who has watched someone close to them put up with continued harassment knows, it isn't just the severity of a single issue that weighs a person down. It is the constant, low-level, picking that causes real trouble. People might develop thick skin, sure, but it is deeply stressful to always have to be on the defensive and never know if one can really trust the other folks in the group. If the troop allows for that sort of atmosphere to be established - which is exactly what happens when adults turn a blind eye and say "oh that event doesn't rise to a level of seriousness to punish anybody" time and again - then the troop is doing a very large dis-service to the young men who join.

 

If a troop doesn't want that sort of atmosphere, then the troop ought to respond clearly and appropriately to each issue when it happens. In turn that will help to create an environment in which all the boys and adults understand that such behavior just won't be tolerated, with no ambiguity to trade on.

 

 

[Eagledad]

>>I don't know that I have seen anything in the thread thus far that indicates the troop adults actively encouraged such behavior in order to reduce the number of young fellows in the troop.

[perdidochas]

SCTDad,

 

You missed what happened. The boy that reported it was the intended victim. The younger boy was the pawn. Two older boys the main perpetrators.

 

I think the punishment of the younger boy was appropriate. He tried to persuade the other boy to drink it. The intended victim didn't fall for it.

 

However, I think the two older boys should be punished much more harshly that that. At the least, they need to be suspended from troop activities for a few months and make a formal apology in front of the troop.

[zippyboro]

Barry,

I don't agree with the expulsion either. I would rather stick them with 40 plus service hours to complete before being allowed to join any troop activities and certainly, no BOR's in the meantime. If that is too much for them, then they were never really invested in the program and just don't get it. Give them a chance to learn a lesson... they can leave on their own accord.