Capping a Troop

[Stosh]

There are some other reasons one may wish to "cap" a troop.

 

If the CO's meeting room for a troop can only accommodate 30 boys and the roster is 50 boys there's going to be a problem.

 

Some troops recruit like mad, but their attrition rate is horrendous. They don't have room for the boys they have yet they recruit more. Looks good on paper and the council loves the numbers.

 

We poke along with our little boy-led program, but there's no way these boys can compete with the savvy pitch of an adult-led recruiting program.

 

Our troop meets in a 350 capacity banquet hall while the other in question meet in a 30 capacity club house. We have the room to do anything we want and they have difficulty just having a place for everyone to sit down.

 

Otherwise I don't think I would ever want to deal with the issue of capping membership. If a boy wants in, I'll find him a spot and give him a chance.

 

Stosh

[AvidSM]

Capping is fine as long as there is another troop nearby that can take the boy in. Every boy should have the opportunity to join at Troop. If all the Troops in the area are full, then it's time to form a new one in the area. This does not mean splitting up an existing troop, but taking in the excess boys who have nowhere to go. A DE who knows the communities in his district should be able to find a new CO and help start up a new troop. The fact that there are two or more troops in a area who are capping membership is a good thing, provided the DE sees the opportunity to start a new unit.

 

A unit has the right to cap membership for whatever reason, be it meeting room size or that's all the boys they can handle. But, the troop leadership should let the UC or DE know that they are turning away boys who want to join. I believe the DE's track this information anyway, by looking at the names of Webelos II's that did not cross over.

[Twocubdad]

I don't think a cap works very well. You're somewhat obligated to take the boys from your feeder (I perfer to call them "brother") packs; if a Scout recruits a friend, is hard to say no; likewise with a boy moving into town. About the only guys you're turning away are those transferring from another troop or pack and that's probably not going to impact your numbers significantly.

 

I do believe having brother packs and troops within the same CO is the perferred situation, but it can make you lazy. If a troop assumes they will automatically get the Webelos from the relate pack they may do little to support the pack, not worry with a Webelos/Scout transition plan and run a crummy first year program. Done right, the relationship between the pack and troop allows for a great transition for both boys and parents and gives the troop to easily place Den Chief. A real win-win.

 

OneHour, we're about a year behind you, numbers-wise. At crossover we went from 41 boys to 65. This time next year we could easily be at 90. It will be two more years before we start aging boys out in significant numbers.

 

Interestingly, that will complete a 10-year cycle where we started with 90-100 boys, birthed a new troop, nearly folded and slowly recovered.

 

Our experience forming a new troop wasn't good. It almost killed our troop. With a new, separate troop you have little or no control over where the Webelos go. In our experience, it tended to be an all-or-nothing migration. When the new troop formed, most of the younger Scouts went to the new troop. The adults forming the new troop had younger sons so they went and many of their friends followed. Those guys also tended to have younger brothers still in the pack, so when they crossed over, they followed their brothers to the new troop and their friends followed them. Net result was that for three years the old troop didn't receive ANY new Webelos.

 

For a year or two after that the Webelos split between the troops. For the past 3 years the Webelos are pretty much coming to our troop (the old troop) 100%. Now with no brother/feeder pack, the new troop is down to a handful of guys and are in danger of folding.

 

Long-term, our plan is going to just deal with the large numbers. One thought will be to have two Senior Patrol Leaders and two PLCs. I'm not sure exactly how that will work, if we just have co-leaders or if we try to run two parallel programs. Ultimately, if it came down to it, I think we would form a second troop within the chartered organization, meeting a different night. Another CO in the council had done that and made it work.

 

For us the REAL long-range solution would be for the district membership committee to get off their duffs and recruit and new CO to charter both a pack and troop. Eventually that will reduce the numbers in both our existing pack and troop to managable levels and create four healthy units.

 

That you already have two packs graduating boys to your troop gives you yet another option of working with your District Executive to encourage one of the packs to form a troop of their own. You will probably see some losses in you existing troop. The most logical place to recruit new troop leaders would be from among the adults in your troop with ties to that pack and CO. But because you still have the relationship with the other pack, you have the ability to sustain the troop with new members.

[Mike F]

Due to physical size of our CO's facility, there's no way we can handle more than 35 scouts, hence the cap. There's a rumor than Baden Powell said the maximum troop size should be 32. Makes sense to me.

 

I have served in troops with well over 3 times this many scouts and believe the medium-sized unit does a better job of delivering the program, but maybe that's just due to my own limitations.

 

Now, back to my buddy, OneHour's, question: How do we cap it?

 

First, we have no "feeder" pack, so no allegiance there.

 

Second, we put out the word within the troop in Oct/Nov to make sure we know about any incoming brothers, neighbors, and best-friends-who-just-have-to-join. We ask these people to visit and fill out joining paperwork early. Then we know the number of open spots.

 

Third, when people visit, we talk about our quirks so they know what we think makes us different. For some, its not a good fit and they keep looking. (For example, not interested in eating fresh rabbit) For the ones who like what they hear, its basically first-signed, first-joined.

 

Forth, our area is blessed with a number of troops ranging from the Godzilla 165-member behemoth to others who are struggling to maintain their charter. No scout is deprived of the opportunity to join Boy Scouting if we dont have an opening.

 

Fifth, when that distraught Webelos shows up late with his heart absolutely set on joining us after were full, we welcome his visit, then bring it up as a discussion in the post-PLC. The guys havent let me down yet and weve made room for that just one more.

 

[WestCoastScouter]

In our town of about 30,000 people we have four troops.

 

Three are about 25-30 scouts, and one is about 12 scouts.

 

Just a thought... as I read about these large troops...?? Maybe we have too many troops for our town? What is the ideal size of a troop?

 

Just for discussion....(This message has been edited by westcoastscouter)

[Mike F]

WestCoast,

Sounds about perfect to me!

Keep getting out there - be outrageous - fun, friends, and adventure!

 

Every boy has a personality. So does every troop.

 

When there's a good match, everyone is happier.

 

With 4 troops in your area, boys have the opportunity to find a good match, which means they are more likely to stay with the program.

[AT1988]

Here is what Baden-Powell says in his book, Aids to Scoutmastership

 

 

One Reason Why a Troop Should not Exceed 32

 

The number in a Troop should preferably not exceed thirty-two. I suggest this number because in training boys myself I have found that sixteen was about as many as I could deal with-in getting at and bringing out the individual character in each. I allow for other people being twice as capable as myself and hence the total of thirty-two. Men talk of having fine Troops of 60 or even 100-and their leaders tell me that their boys are equally well trained as in smaller Troops. I express admiration ("admiration" literally translated means "surprise"), and I don't believe them.

[Eagledad]

>>Now, back to my buddy, OneHour's, question: How do we cap it?

[OneHour]

Hey Mike,

It's great to hear from you. I see that you have your feet on Terra Ferma! Anyway, my worst fear is, as it has already been pointed out, that this will create frictions among friends and neighbors. Our troop doesn't do anything more special than the other troop. We are car-camping, canoeing, backpacking, summer camping, high-adventuring as the other troop. Our boys run amock as any good troop would have them. Our boys fumble about as they try to lead the troop as any good troop would have. We have about the same number of adult to boys ration in terms of volunteers. Our meeting place is slightly larger but it is growing smaller as the troop gets bigger. There is a solution, but it will be drastic. Barry pointed out already. I have done it once already. I need to step down and leave the troop. Two years ago, I left the troop for a year. The troop ran dried (0 scouts) that year. Since I have been with the troop 8 years, we have been getting 20+ boys each year except for that one year. The problem is that I don't do anything out of the ordinary to recruit; as a matter of fact, every time that I sell scouting, I sell both troops. I usually keep myself low-key during recruiting season. I apologize if it sounds vain, but that is the only thing that I can think of. Most of the parents/scouts know me through cub scout from both packs eventhough I am only involve in one and through the my limited district involvement . The others know me through my coaching with basketball, soccer, chess, and tennis. Still others know me through my older sons' other school involvements (hence my involvement) ... orchestra, math club, etc. Barry may right. I may be the culprit.

 

Ugggghhhhh ... as with Barry ... I love this scouting stuff too much to quit! But maybe sometimes, I think that one has to sacrifice for the benefit of the many!

 

Again, my sincere apologies if I sounded vain ... I don't ever want to beat my chess and tout my own horn. It was very uncomfortable to have written that.

 

Many of you are the reasons why people come to your troop. You are the trust that they are looking for their sons. I thought a lot about after what Barry wrote. I scares me! That's a lot responsibility and expectation!

 

1Hour(This message has been edited by OneHour)

[Eagledad]

>>Good Scoutmasters tend to be very desirable. So one solution is kick out that Scoutmaster and find one that isnt so good at the job.

 

Barry

[Mike F]

Barry,

 

I am a student of your writings and hope you help write our future training materials and handbooks.

 

Seriously - the facility we are fortunate to use totally limits us in size to about 30-35 scouts.

Equally seriously - I'm very happy about the facility limitation because this forces us to maintain size.

 

I am very active at District and Council levels and am becoming more involved at National, so we get more attention than your average unit. Rather than burning energy trying to effectively double or triple our size, I prefer to work with other leaders to help them find ways to adapt some of the methods which have contributed to our success.

 

Soul searching? You betcha. I hate the recruiting crunch. When we have someone visit who we (adults and PLC) sense is not a good fit, it's gut-wrenching to suggest to them that they should take a look at Troops A or B. So far, I think it's working out without alienating my neighbors.

 

Like you - I love this scouting stuff!

[Scoutfish]

I have a question. It's probably stupid and oversimplified, but I can't halp myself from asking!

 

Can you have "squadrons" in a troop? Maybe not the right term or word, but along these lines:

 

1 SM to oversee the whole entire troop. Then have 1 ASM for each 32 boys . Each 32 boys and a ASM would be the "squadron/platoon/ regiment...whatever.

 

No, I do not mean to lean towards or imply a military connection, but can't find better words to describe the group.

 

The group could be 32, 22, 16 or whatever.

 

Can you have more than 1 ASM? Can you have "Deputy SM's?"

[Scoutfish]

My only point being( and it's still a question) :

 

If you hada troop of say... 90 boys, couldn't you have 3 groups with 4 patros each? Each group - by whatever name you call it consisting of a "deputy" Sm or ASM and 1 SPL and 1 PL per patrol?

 

 

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Scoutfish - yes, you can do that.

[Mike F]

Scoutfish,

 

A troop I used to serve attempted something along those lines.

We divided our 12 patrols into 3 Flights (A, B, and C).

The patrol leaders reported directly to ASPL-A, -B, or -C instead of directly to the SPL.

We had an ASM dedicated to working with each of the Flight ASPLs and PLs under him.

 

SPL was still at the top directing the troop program.

He had another ASPL or two to assist him and to handle the other staff positions.

 

It seemed like a great idea and looked good on paper, but we were not able to make it work very well in practice.

 

Your mileage may vary!