give the SM a break!

[Lisabob]

In the original thread someone mentioned that it is always the SM's "fault" whenever anybody dislikes anything to do with a troop program.

 

Yep, I have seen this happen. We probably all have. In fact, from time to time I have struggled with this notion myself, because it certainly does appear that where the SM leads, others are going to follow. For a few years, my son's troop had the practice of rotating people out of the SM role after 2 years. So I saw how much the personality, views, and goals of an individual SM shapes the troop. There have been times when I might have admired the character of the SM as an individual, but I thought the person wasn't doing a very good job as a leader for the group.

 

Sometimes this over-reliance on the SM happens out of deference (heck, they are the SM, I am only a "fill in the blank: committee member, assistant SM, parent, bystander"). Sometimes it is for lack of better ideas or knowledge on the part of the SM's support staff (ASMs and committee). Sometimes it is because it is convenient to have someone to "blame" when things aren't going the way we want them to go. Sometimes it is because people just want to go along rather than make waves, and then they wait for the SM to fail. This all must wear on good SMs.

 

But, as unfair as this sometimes is, isn't that kind of the nature of the position? The "buck" has to stop somewhere in the program when it comes to making tough decisions and acting on them.

 

 

[SctDad]

I have to agree with you. But I must aso say that you need to include the Cubmaster, and occasionally the Den Leaders. I had an issue with something that one parent said he woud help us with. He fell through. (Actually he could not be reached for two weeks before the event) Naturaly everyone looks at the CM when something goes wrong, even if they gave someone else the responsibiity.

 

But like you said that is the nature of the job. Something that you must be ready for.

 

I Love this Job

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Very true that the buck has to stop somewhere but that wasn't the point. The point was the way that some posters to this forum immediately jump on the bandwagon condemning the Scoutmaster's actions, based strictly on what some aggrieved party puts forth as the situation. The consensus seems to be that the Scoutmasters sole purpose for being is to place roadblocks in little Johnny's path. Do we really believe that to be the case? I don't think so, but often times Beavah is the only one who comes forward and says, "Whoa, let's slow down here, let's use a little common sense and try to put the situation in perspective, seeing what in fact may truly be happening!"

 

Let's all step back and use a little restraint! Many of us have walked in his shoes and feel his pain. And often, there is a lot more pain there than there should be or is necessary. Give the Scoutmaster a break!

[Engineer61]

So, I think there are two different issues at play here.

 

First, the notion that when someone posts here, the usual first response is a "flying suplex from the top rope" onto the SM based on the OP's depiction of the issue. OK...perhaps that is a bit unfair, but there's plenty of "way to go" SM positives here too...granted not as many as the other, but that what Forums are all about...the problems.

 

Second, there is the iussue of the buck stopping at the SM. My response is ABSOLUTELY!!!

 

IMO, (and regardless of anything in the Manuals) the SM (not the ASM's, Committee's, PL's) is ULTIMATELY (and I would say SOLELY) responsible for the correct and SAFE operation of the Troop at all times and in all places. If a boy gets injured on a Troop function, it is the SM's responsiblity (even if not present). Either the SM allowed an function what was beyond the capability of the Scouts, or did not ensure that the ASM's and Scouts had sufficient understanding or training to perform.

 

So no, in most respects SM's do not get a break. Insert old adage about the intensity of heat and one's presence in the kitchen.(This message has been edited by Engineer61)

[Eagledad]

>>But, as unfair as this sometimes is, isn't that kind of the nature of the position? The "buck" has to stop somewhere in the program when it comes to making tough decisions and acting on them.

[Buffalo Skipper]

I have over 2 cumulative years as SM (including my time as a 19 year old ASM in Germany when there was no SM). Then I was it, but now, I have a different approach. I do not run the Troop by a Committee of ASMs, but I do seek the guidance of those I trust, not dissimilar to the approach I take here, when asking for advice. I am willing to make the hard decision (on the rare occasion when a SM should need to do so), but I also seek advice on what direction we (including the ASMs) should be guiding the scouts for the long-term growth of the scout and success of the patrols.

 

I have had parents make accusations, and I have had to remove a scout from the troop, and I have had to take scouts to the hospital, all in my first year. Instilling confidence in our scouts' parents (as well as our scouts) is what being the SM is all about. Putting together a team of supervisors (ASMs) to assist in seeing that the program is being developed properly is part of this. BP said that scout is a game. In a way, this is true for me, too. Just as a scout gets great pleasure from the game of scouting, I take tremendous pride in orgaizing and "managing" the team which sees that the scouts experience this game in a meaningful and positive way. Relying on them to make decisions (sometimes good, sometimes not) is part of the game. Seeing them grow from these experiences is part of my joy.

 

Do I need to be given a "break"? Not often. I expect people to be critical of my program and prehaps even of the values we instill in our patrols and scouts, especially those who do not see the "big picture" or appreciate Scouting's methods. Selling this program to them is also part of my job, and I relish it. It is also other's critical eye which often give me new ideas and helps to keep me on track as well.

[mikemayer67]

I am just about to complete my 2nd year as SM (and will jump at the chance for a 2nd 2 year term when it is offered to me---I see no reason that it won't be).

 

I must say that my reaction to this thread is very different now than it would have been 2 years ago. This change reflects my change as SM.

 

When I started, I felt very overwhelmed and turned very heavily to the committee, the ASMs, and the unit commissioner for guidance in making decisions. Not so much any more. No because I now know so much more how to be a SM, but because I now realize that I have known all along how to be a SM and just needed the confidence to acknowledge to myself that fact. Do I still make mistakes? Sure...(see my earlier post today).

 

This is NOT to say that I don't solicit the input from others. I still ask opinions from the same group (including those whose opinions I usually don't agree with on the off chance that might have a good one this time). I just no longer simply defer to the group consensus, rather I weigh it into my decision.

 

Why the change? Precisely because of the theme of this thread. The buck stops with me. Yes, that can be a daunting thought. But it is also very liberating if you look at it the correct way. It stops with me BECAUSE I have been given both the institutional and moral authority to make these decisions BECAUSE the committee and parents trust my judgement.

 

So yes, I will take the blame whenver blame needs to be assigned. BUT you sure can bet I'm also going to take the accolades and inherit pride that comes with watching these boys grow. On balance the latter GREATLY outweighs the former.

 

YIS,

mike

[BadenP]

As a former SM myself I can say that if the troop is running as it should with the boys in POR's doing their jobs well then the SM and ASM's are more in the role of advisors and guides as far as the program piece goes. If the SM uses a more dictatorial style of leadership then when things go wrong he is FULLY responsible. That is one of the main differences I have seen between boy run and adult run troops. Everyone one in the troop, adult and youth, need to fully understand their responsibilities upfront if you really want to have a well run troop.

 

I used to get a kick out of those dictatorial SM's complaining at every roundtable that their boys are just plain lazy, and how they had to take control to save the troop, and in 98% of those cases the troop eventually went under. IMHO too many SM's don't take the time to really study the SM handbook, especially some of the older versions by Hillcourt, and instead rely soley on SM basic training to prepare themselves to run a troop.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[MNBob]

I once ran into a friend at Walmart who at the time was the wife of a Scoutmaster. We became friends a few years earlier when she was a den leader of the pack and I was the Cub Master. I also trained her husband in Scoutmaster Specific, so we saw each other now and then. Well this time when we met, she apologized for bothering me so much when I was the Cub Master. She saw that I was confused, so she explained that she saw first ahnd the stress of being the one person everyone calls when they have a problem.This is exactly how I feel except I'm not the Cubmaster. I'm the Committee Chair. Half way into my first year as a DL (Wolf) the current CM asked for volunteers. As a DL I felt it was my responsibility to help the CM find leaders so I approached some parents in my den that I felt might be interested since I figured I knew the parents better than the CM. I was told that we needed a CC and that all a CC had to do was go to monthly round up meetings (I had not had training other than YP as our Pack did not emphasize it). So one of the parents in my den volunteered for the position. For the rest of the year that was all that was expected of him. Even when recharter time came in March the CM who was used to doing everything didn't ask the CC for any help.

 

Fast forward to December of that same year (we are now Bears) and the CM suddenly quits without warning. Now bring into context the fact that our Pack had forever operated independent of a CO (which was a housing association) and had barely any contact with the District because previous leaders didn't think it was necessary. Not surprisingly we scrambled to finish out the year. The WDL became the CM. The AWDL became the WDL. I got two more parents from my den to step into leadership roles (Outings Chair and Membership Chair). We managed to run our Pinewood derby pretty well in January. The B&G was less successful and there were rumors of some discontent which came from people who didn't want to help. In the spring many of us went to training (other than online) for the first time at a "University of Scouting" event and the parent from my den who was the CC obviously got a big eye opener when he found out what the CC was really supposed to be doing. The new CM was actually pretty gung ho and had lots of great ideas. The meetings he ran were planned and went well. For the first time ever we were going to try to come up with a rough plan for the upcoming year including one Pack get together per month in the summer and the CM created a tentative 12 month calendar with the idea that we'd meet once in early summer and once in late summer to fill in the details. Summer came. First planning meeting never occurred. Each summer activity got canceled since we never discussed the details. Late August arrived and the CM informed us he would not be able to continue in the position. His son ended up leaving the Pack. Before he quit, the CM had forgotten to schedule our meetings with the church where we met so we had to completely revise our schedule of the past couple of years because our normal meeting dates/location had been given to Girl Scouts since we dropped the ball. The CC and I (now WDL) did our best to take charge of the situation and get everything in place.

 

The ACM became the CM but this ended up making things worse since he always felt his only roles as CM was to run the meeting. He did not provide an agenda and he did not communicate with parents or Den Leaders or ask dens to prepare anything for meetings. At the round up meeting the CM told new parents how they could expect things to be chaotic and disorganized. I suppose he was being honest but it didn't make a good impression. We asked new den leaders to get trained but none of them followed through. We made it through that year with the CC and I pushing hard to try to improve Pack meetings and get the CM to buy into a little more planning. We canceled one meeting because we simply were not prepared to do anything. As the year progressed the CC frustration grew and he started backing away from helping the CM. He instead concentrated on finding a new CO and preparing for recharter. I OTOH became even more involved despite having a den of 16 boys (we had 2 DL but I was the primary organizer and planner). Because the CM did not feel it necessary to communicate with parents I became the email voice for Pack announcements and updates. I tried to provide a rough agenda for Pack meetings on behalf of the CM. We purposely did not hold Pack meetings in January and February just so we didn't have to worry about them (Pinewood and B&G replaced the meeting was our excuse). We made it through the year and then the CC gave the CM an ultimatum (after hearing from the CM that his wife didn't want him to continue as CM) -- either step down as CM and return to ACM and allow the CC to become CM or agree to more planning and actually carrying out the duties of the CM. He chose the latter.

 

Once again we made plans for the summer (2009). This time the recently recruited Outings Chair came through and we held one activity in June, July and August. The CC was expecting a baby in August so I volunteered to take over his position because I realized he'd be pretty busy in late summer/early fall. By August I made sure we had meeting space scheduled. The CM did not hold any planning meetings but I called a leaders meeting in August. I asked any interested parent volunteers to please come to the meeting. One shows up and she becomes the ACM. At the meeting I told the CM to please put together a tentative Pack meeting schedule for the next couple of months to present at our next meeting. I also talked about our upcoming round up meeting in September and asked Den leaders (other than myself as W2DL) to plan some activities outside while the CM, Membership Chair and myself led new parent orientation. The MC tells me he won't be able to make the meeting. September round up arrives and none of the den leaders ever talked or made any plans. One didn't even come to the meeting. Scrambling I ask the CM to take the kids outside and figure out an activity while the former CC and I talk to parents. The meeting goes ok but the number of incoming Scouts was disappointing. Once again we ask new (and existing who are untrained) leaders to get training. None of them follow through other than some who do online only because I forced the issue with Youth Protection.

 

In August the committee voted to include a Lions den (kindergarten pilot program) because we had a father who was interested in being the coordinator. I voted against it but the vote decided differently. The pilot program is supposed to commit to two meeting per month and we are expected to give feedback to the Council. The year begins. I tell den leaders that I'd like them to meet twice per month. Most choose to meet once per month including the Lions den. The Coordinator only wanted to lead the den so that he could bring both of his boys to a meeting on the same night and he wasn't going to commit to second Lions meeting since his older son was only meeting once. Despite my August request the CM does not provide us with any Pack meeting agendas. Despite his spring promise to the CC the CM still does not plan any meetings. He mentions an idea for the October Pack meeting and we tell him to run with it. Just prior to the meeting he tells us he never followed through on the idea so we don't have anything planned. At our next committee meeting he tells us that he may be out of town hunting in November so he assume the ACM will take care of the meeting. By this point she is fully trained and she agrees. We apologize for bringing her into this mess between the former CC, CM and me. She tells us she is willing to step into the role of CM so we essentially "fire" the CM at the end of November, 2009. We have not looked back and the new CM is doing a great job. Dealing with the CM issue for so long took precedence over other problems including a den whose leader didn't really want the job and did not provide any effort yet no other parent would step up. The new CM's significant other has stepped in to lead the den in January through the rest of the year.

 

This has been my experience with Cub Scout leadership. I apologize for such a lengthy response but maybe my experience may relate to others who have struggled with leadership issues. I'm fully trained as a DL, WDL and CC. Despite my training and despite the well-intended "just do X and everything will work out" responses from people sometimes things just don't work out. You either persevere or give up. For me personally the greatest frustration I've had as a CC is asking leaders to do something that is part of their leader role and having them simply ignore me or not follow through. Although we have a new CO (Lions Club) we still operate independently. I don't know where I'm supposed to turn for help but I'm now making the effort to better understand the Pack->District->Council structure and see what the District provides. I just crossed over my son and his den and am proud to say that all 12 Scouts earned AoL and crossed over to a Troop. I now lose some friends/leaders who are also crossing over as I prepare to bring my youngest son into the Pack as a Tiger. At least at this point we appear to have a good CM who I can share the burden with and the former CC/friend still has a younger son in the Pack. Despite everything I have enjoyed myself. If you made it this for thanks for reading.

[Stosh]

I'm trying to sit back and understand the big picture here.

 

There seems to be two issues at play here and the line between the two is getting quite muddled.

 

If there is a problem, the first reaction seems to be is to jump all over someone's case and blame them. That will not solve the problem, but may in fact create more. The SM seems to be the universal target. If some boys are horsing around and they get hurt, it's the SM's fault. If someone wanders off, it's the SM's fault. Okay. Fine. But what does that solve? The problem's still there, the parent's are upset, the SM is feeling guilty for something they had no control over.

 

If the SM is responsible for the program then 1) s/he runs it the way h/she want to and the boys can take a back seat and go along for the ride. 2) the boy's run it and the SM takes his/her chances that s/he won't be blamed down the run when something goes afoul. If there are highly-charged parents around, I'll take my chances with #1 any day. However, that's not what BSA wants. So #2 is stick your neck out and wait, it's gonna be coming your way eventually. Are we in fact setting our SM's up to fail?

 

When all is said and done, what's the purpose of blame? We all love to blame others, it's a career choice for a lot of people. But it is the most useless waste of energy ever created.

 

If there's a problem, solve it no matter who's fault it may be. If it's broken, fix it, who cares who broke it. If something is lost, find it, does it make any difference who lost it?

 

A SM is responsible for teaching leadership and providing a quality program for the boys. Is it the CC's fault if that person doesn't do the job? Is the SM solely responsible? If the boys don't learn are they at fault? This process can go on forever and nothing changes.

 

I live by the Speed Lea's levels of conflict and the only problem level that can be solved is level 1 - identify the problem and fix it.. Blame is level 3 so already the problem has been obscured (level 2) and someone's head is on the chopping block (level 3) and everyone is yet another level removed from solving the problem.

 

Eagledad is standing in the parking lot getting chewed out for a problem that he knows nothing about. If he doesn't have a tough skin, that troop can lose its SM in a heartbeat. Is that the purpose/goal of the parent venting? If not, what exactly is the problem? She never identified the problem so how's it going to get corrected?

 

But suppose she walks up and says, "I'm angry, I'm afraid, and I've lost trust in your ability to care for my child because for X number of hours I was left out of the loop on where my child was. This is clear, precise and identifies the problem. Can the SM begin to correct the situation and take precautions to make sure it doesn't happen again? Yep. But that's not what happened. Instead we have an unhappy parent, a confused SM and no one knows what's going to be done about it in the future. The problem has gotten worse and there's even more info on the table to work with because now there's an angry parent tossed into the mix.

 

Fortunately the situation was taken back to level 1 conflict, the problem was identified and now steps can be taken to correct the situation and put into effect certain procedures to insure it doesn't happen again. How can one implement procedures to correct situations that are unknown? Can't be done, the SM is replaced and someone new is put in there who knows even less than the SM. Now there's a solution that's gotten failure written all over it.

 

Stosh

[jr56]

Oh yes, I can sympathize. My 3 years as a Scoutmaster were the most rewarding, and heartbreaking at the same time. I would have thought that a few people would have appreciated the job I tried to do, but it just didn't work out that way. I just hope I provided a decent program for the boys.

[MNBob]

Agreed Stosh, the ultimate goal should be to resolve and fix the issue.

 

The main point of my long-winded response is to show that often there are lots of other things going on that might not be apparent to the casual observer so give your leaders a break and don't always assume they're at fault.

 

But a more general question is how do you bring accountability to a volunteer organization especially if you want to get rid of a particular volunteer but do not have anyone available to take over the position?

[Stosh]

MNBob! LOL~! You bring back to mind the advise my mother gave me many years ago and it works every time. She worked her whole life running a hospital gift shop as a volunteer with a volunteer staff. Her solution to any problem was to identify it, and correct it, but be sure to have something handy to replace it. She would always say, "If you're going to take candy from a baby, you had better have a toy or something to give it in return, or the problem is just starting."

 

If one is preparing to "get rid" of a volunteer they had better have someone standing in the wings ready to take over or all one has done is replaced one problem with another. And remember the person standing in the wings is going to be watching your every move thinking that tomorrow you could be doing that to them as well. Sounds like fun, huh?

 

I've worked with volunteer groups my whole life and whereas one can fire someone from a job, it's nothing but messy with volunteers.

 

When I teach my boys leadership, i.e. Patrol Leader, I explain the dynamics of leadership, but at the SAME TIME, I teach the followers. Their #1 job is to make their patrol leader look good, too. If he is having difficulties are you going to complain or help? If he doesn't do something well, are you going to step in and fill in the blanks? etc. These are the things that most people don't figure out and the only solution they are familiar with is get rid of it and it will go away. Well, life doesn't work that way. Maybe they will go away, but the problem won't.

 

Here's where the CC and MC's are necessary to assist and help with the SM. Have you provided all the necessary opportunities for training? Is the SM proficient in every aspect of the job or do we need to fill in the blanks so he won't be distracted from the boys by doing things s/he's not good at, but the committee can handle easily? We want to teach team work amongst our boys and as adults we need to be setting a good example. Sitting around trying to figure out who's fault a problem is, as I stated before, is a total waste of valuable time.

 

Stosh

[Scoutfish]

Yeah, I think it is the nature of the position.

 

It sucks too! Yet anybody who becomes a S

[AvidSM]

Having been a Scoutmaster for 3 years, you really feel the weight of responsibility for the Troop - something I did not feel as an Assistant SM for six years before that.

 

It's not that everything that goes wrong is the Scoutmaster's fault. And, it's not that the Scoutmaster makes all the decisions in a vacuum. I was sure to get input from others when any decision had to be made. But, in the end I knew it was my call and that I was ultimately responsible when things went wrong.

 

There is a difference between fault and responsibility. When things went wrong, there was always an informal fault finding process going on - mostly to learn from our mistakes and not do them again. But there is always the human tendency to find fault with someone.

 

Switching out SM's every two years sounds very much like what they do with officers in the military. It gives more people the experience and it limits the term of an incompetent leaders, but it makes for an unstable unit. A Scoutmaster should be the person with the most program experience and he set the tone for the whole troop. To keep switching this person around every two years does not make sense.