Serious Scout Discipline Advice Needed

[ProudMom]

A situation recently occurred at an official cub, webelo and scout ceremony gathering. The situation involved 3 of our Scouts. Scout A approached Scout B and C and offered to sell them some pot. Scout A is 15 yrs. old, his family has been involved in Scouts for years and has grown up in the webelo/scout arena. Scout B is having his Eagle ceremony very soon and Scout C will soon follow with his own Eagle Ceremony. Scout B is the Scoutmasters son & SPL and informed his parents of what happened. It is unknown if Scout B informed his parents. I am on the Troop Committee and a couple other Committee members are aware of this situation. We are waiting for Scout Bs Eagle ceremony (a matter of days) to pass before we address this situation.

My questions/concerns to the forum are this:

If this occurred in your Troop, what would you do? It is my belief that this situation is serious enough for the Adult Committee to be involved (Youth Protection).

Since this involves drugs and we have had a Drug/Alcohol Prevention program in the last year, requiring the Scout to attend something of this nature again will not work.

What specific steps would you, as Adult Troop members, take to make sure this behavior stops, the Scout learns from it and protect our other boys? We understand that we need to interview Scout A, B and C (separately) and get their stories. What next? Suspension? Do we keep documentation in his advancement file? Your sage and experienced advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[ProudMom]

In regards to the above. I meant to say 'It is unknown if Scout C informed his parents.'

Thanks.

[OldGreyEagle]

When you say "pot" do you mean marijuana? As far as I know, selling marijuana is a crime. Now, in Florida, there may be a threshold weight at which selling marijuana is a misdemeanor and above a certain weight is a felony.

 

Then you have to factor in what your responsibilites are. If you are aware a crime took place and do not report it, what are your state statues on that? Is there a difference if its a misdemeanor or a felony? If you have knowledge of a crime and do not report it, it may not effect you. What about others on the COmmittee? Any lawyers? Police Officers? others who are legally required to report unlawful activity?

 

I am not advocating you lead a torchlight parade to the alleged perpertrators home, but at the same time what does not addressing the situation immediately accomplish?

 

 

[Eagle732]

I just dealt with a very similar situation a few weeks ago. Scout A tells several Scouts he has pot on him and shows one of them what appears to be pot. Problem was none of the other Scouts would tell the adults. A month after the event one brave Scout comes forward and we have a discussion. Here's how I handled it:

1. Phone call to CC and COR to advise.

2. Interviewed every Scout who's name came up in relation to the incident except Scout A. All Scout were told the discussion was confidential and that they were not in trouble.

3. After interviews it appears that Scout A could have been just boasting since no one actual saw him light up.

4. Scout A is called in for a SMC, he denies everything. he is told in no uncertain terms that this behavior is unacceptable and there will be no second chances.

5. Entire troop gets a talking to about our code of conduct and that it is unacceptable to allow something like this to go unreported for over a month and that they are expected to come forward when they see something going on that is wrong.

6. Troop issues a 10 point Guideline and Expectations that each Scout and parent must review, sign and turn in. This covers such things as drugs, alcohol, hazing, bullying, etc., a very in depth document. Part one discusses how the Scouts are expected to live up to the Ideas of Scouting and describes them.

7. Scout A is moved to another patrol and buddied up with an older Scout whom I trust and will keep an eye on him. the move also removes Scout A from his PL job.

8. I report to the committee the situation and how I handled it.

 

I hope I handled it effectively, time will tell.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

[BrentAllen]

I would first interview all the Scouts involved and take very good notes. I would find out if he was really selling pot, or was it just oregano. If I suspect it was the real deal, I discuss the issue with CC, COR and the Scouts parents. Depending on how the parents react, I might suggest they have him drug tested (the boy's reaction to a drug test request should be very telling). If it turns out there is strong evidence it was the real deal, I would recommend a suspension of 6 - 12 months. If it happens again, he is kicked out of the Troop.

[Stosh]

Smoking pot is a crime, but selling pot is worse.

 

If Scouts B & C did not purchase, but B reported it to parents, it is now a matter for the police to investigate. If B & C purchased they are culpable.

 

If any scout witnesses a crime of any sort it needs to be reported to the proper authorities, i.e. the police. If the parents/scout leaders/district personnel try to handle this by themselves it could open the door for aiding and abetting.

 

There comes a time when a scout may overstep a boundary where the scout leadership cannot rescue him. If it was me, I'd distance myself as far away from this situation as possible. I would support the scout and his family, but my involvement would be only that which the police request as part of their investigation.

 

If the substance turns out to not be pot, following the police investigation, then the troop leadership needs to follow up with the appropriate disciplinary measures for the problem this situation involved the troop in.

 

Stosh

 

 

[The Blancmange]

I can understand the measured responses in the case of a boy who was caught using or in possession of a small amout. He needs help. But trying to deal at a troop function (or anywhere for that matter)? Would you be tolerant of a scout committing some other felony at a scouting function? If the accusations are credible, he needs to be gone, no questions asked. I'm sure your CO would not be too happy with a story in the paper about one of their scouts being arrested for possession with intent and being associated in some way. I doubt the parents of the Webelos would be too happy to hear of this either.

[Basementdweller]

This has been discussed many times on this forum.

 

The results were everything from "oh their kids", "I don't want to ruin his life and college prospects" thru "throw them in jail".

 

I am of the belief that law enforcement should be involved. Let them investigate and decide if he is guilty or not. Then based on their finding, decide whether he should remain a scout.

 

He needs helps sure, but now he is involving others in his addiction.

 

I caught a coworker abusing drugs on the job and reported it to my superior as required by our company policy. He was put on a work improvement plan including drug testing and treatment. He lost his job for positive drug tests.(This message has been edited by Basementdweller)

[The Blancmange]

Calling the police after the fact would likely not have any effect. Presumably, the evidence is long gone. No prosecutor is going to charge someone with trying to sell marijuana based solely a verbal allegation. I suppose, once contacted, the police might try to set up a controlled buy, but that would be the only way to have him arrested at this stage, and not something I'd really want to be involved in.

[John-in-KC]

Aside from the SM/SPL working through how the PLC will handle standard setting (items 5 & 6 of his post), I think what Eagle732 described is the correct process.

 

Since the SPL is SM's son, that part should be fairly easy.

 

I understand that the gendarmerie may not be able to do anything about this incident. They might, though, be interested in keeping tabs on a dealer. I think SM/SPL should talk to law enforcement.

 

I also think CC and SM, having each others backs, need to have a talk with Scout A's parents. Themes are: This is line crossing, it's serious, he'll be gone from the unit if it happens again, period. They're the ones raising him; we are part of their support mechanism.

[frankpalazzi]

I had a similar situation occur recently. We held BORs the other night, one for Star, and two for Life. (advice: limit 'em to 2 in a night, they can go LONG!). One of the Life candidates, our SPL breezed through his board, a model scout. Then, I asked him a hypothetical, only because he is an SPL.

 

"If you were on a camping trip, and you happened upon two other scouts doing something inappropriate, such as smoking cigarettes or maybe pot, or drinking, what would YOU do?" (emphasis being what the boy would do, not what he thinks should be done). He seemed extremely uncomfortable and fidgety at this question, and couldn't seem to come up with an answer. I gave him examples such as: Deal with it on the spot and stop the activity, inform an adult, do nothing and pretend you didn't see it, etc. He then said he would deal with the problem on the spot and let the scouts know that their action was inappropriate. We finished up the BOR and the boy later came to me and asked if he could speak to me for a moment. We went to a corner of the room, and he asked if he could tell me something in confidence. "What's on your mind, B----?" I asked, "Out with it!" smiling to try to put him at ease.

He told me that another boy had shown him and a few others what he claimed was a joint. I asked him what he did, and he replied "Just what I said in the board of review, I dealt with it on the spot." He took the "joint" away and threw it down the latrine. He didn't want to say who the boy was, and I told him that he didn't have to if he didn't want to, the situation was dealt with. He DID tell me the name of the boy, who is a Star scout, and son of a very active committee member. The SPL is the son of a very active commitee member who is also Cubmaster. I told the SPL we would keep it between us, but if it happens again we have to deal with it at another level. (I didn't specify exactly how.) He agreed and seemed very relieved. His conscience had been bothering him since I asked the question, perhaps thinking I had some idea of what happened, but I didn't, it was purely a concidence.

I know the boy who had the "pot", and he is at that age (14) where such experimentation is likely to happen. I am not overly concerned about a "drug epidemic" in the troop over this, because over the years things like this are just history repeating. Doesn't make it right, legal, proper, or appropriate; I'm just saying it's NOT uncommon, and wasn't shocked at the "news". Kids will always be kids and that won't change. What I've seen change *A LOT* are PARENTS over the years. A situation like this can get out of hand in the Parent Ranks, and can tear a troop apart. Years ago, I could have a one-on-one with Dad about it, and Dad would go home and blister the boy's behind. End of problem. Not so any more! "MY SON DOESN'T DO THOSE KINDS OF THINGS!!" is the battle cry of the land these days. I chose to deal with it quietly...THIS time, and keep the confidence of the SPL (A Scout/Scouter is TRUSTWORTHY). But I can assure you this, I will be keeping a closer eye on the boy who allegedly had the joint. (I attend most camping trips because the TLC and SM request it, I have a big pickup truck!) The SM and the boy's dad won't hear about it unless I hear about it a second time.

 

Every boy deserves a second chance.

 

YIS,

Frank

 

[Stosh]

Every boy deserves a second chance might be an honorable comment, and I'm sure to a certain degree it's true. However, BSA leadership isn't called upon, nor qualified, to make such judgments. If a boy is involved in a felony, it is not up to well-meaning vigilantes to make any sort of judgment call in the situation. We have people in our country who are better qualified to make those decisions.

 

In today's society it is a very fine line between helping people in this situation and a large number of others who feel they have a say-so in it too. I for one wouldn't want to be caught on the wrong side of the line. Just one raised eyebrow and one's whole scouting career as a leader comes to a halt. There are enough zero-tolerant policies out there outlined by those burned by the system. Learn from their mistakes.

 

Stosh

[frankpalazzi]

The "well meaning vigilante" was the SPL, what he did cannot be undone. (unless someone wants to go latrine-diving.) He did not have to come to me, but felt he should do so in conscience. I did not see it, therefore it is only hearsay. Years of experience with boys this age have taught me that in most cases, one stern warning is enough to end the wrongdoing. The boy doesn't know he's committed a felony (misdemeanor in this state, equal to a traffic ticket). Bringing in the authorities would be a waste of time and resources, and would fold the troop and harbor lots of ill feelings. Since there is no evidence, there is no case. Don't need a law degree to know that. And I'm not going to start a Federal case over what was purportedly said or seen. Refer to the 1692 Salem Witch trials: they too had a "zero tolerance" policy, eh?

[evmori]

Well, if Scout A was actually trying to sell marijuana and not oregano, he is guilty of a couple crimes. Possession and trafficking. Serious.

 

I love the way Eagle732 handled this! Excellent!

[raisinemright]

Not scout related but I was a leader of a community club for many years. One of the other leaders was a police officer. Catching kids with pot or alcohol was infrequent but not unusual. We stayed in the same resort every year and we told the kids before they left that we would be searching their stuff and their rooms. Surprise, we knew every possible hiding place in those rooms.

 

Our approach was to confront the kid, make him call his parents. It was a ski club. On occasion, we were several hundred miles from home. PSaid parents were required to pick up the young offended within the day. The kid was kicked out and punishment was dealt with by the parents.

 

Hopefully, that would be enough to set them straight.