Unauthorized and Restricted Activities

[MNBob]

The other topic talked about martial arts. I then read http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/GSS/gss09.aspx#e

"Pointing any type of firearm or simulated firearm at any individual is unauthorized. Scout units may plan or participate in paintball, laser tag or similar events where participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations."

 

My Web2 den was invited to a Troop activity which went to a business that has indoor batting cages, arcade, miniaturegolf and laser tag. While there another Troop from the area also arrived. Now reading the above link it appears that laser tag is prohibitied. Does this means both Troops were holding a Troop activity that is prohibited by BSA?(This message has been edited by MNBob)

[NE-IV-88-Beaver]

Yes.

[OldGreyEagle]

Did the scouts put on the laser "vests" and actively shot at each other or was a Laser Tag "option" present but no scout participated in the laser tag section?

[MNBob]

They (Scouts) and us (adults) definitely participated in laser tag.

[MNBob]

So my next question: Who is supposed to police these policies and what is the punishment supposed to be?

[OldGreyEagle]

Well, the adults who are registered leaders agreed to follow the rules and regulations of the BSA when they signed their applications, so its the registered troop leadership who is supposed to be up on these things.

 

The punishment? Thats a lot more obscure and ethereal. It's not like you are supposed to self-report yourself to Council or your DE and get 1 demerit. There isn't much "punishment" meted out to units, the BSA wants units, it doesnt want to be in the business of revoking charters for the most part. Now you know that Laser Tag is prohibited, bring it to the unit leadership's attention and don't do it any more. If another Laser Tag outing is done, then you have to consider what your next move it. Luckily enough, its not like the BSA program Police (cousin to the Uniform Police) will be busting down the doors during a unit meeting to grab your charter and abscond with it into the night.

[Eagle732]

Bring it to the SM's attention, that way he'll know about it and it won't happen again. Most SMs want to do what's right and follow the rules (even if they don't make sense sometimes).

 

Worst thing you could do is to bypass the unit leader and complain to District or Council! If you did the SM would probably get a call from the UC saying "Hey you know you're not suppose to do Laser Tag right?", then they would talk about the SOB that called and turned the SM in!

[MNBob]

I was asking in general. I don't plan to be the police but as has been mentioned I'll bring it up in the future now that I "know better". Seems there is a lot of BSA policy that is either not known (this example) or simply ignored (uniforms). I've only been involved with Cub Scouts so anything related to Boy Scouts is news to me. But my son is about to cross over and I don't want to become known as the "new guy policy jerk". Maybe I shouldn't have started reading here.

[ScoutNut]

I would bet that both Troops knew quite well they were going against BSA policy.

 

A Local Tour Permit should have been filed for the outing. On the Tour Permit the leader in charge signs that they have READ the Guide to Safe Scouting, and have a copy in their possession. If they had stated on the Tour Permit it was a lazer tag outing the permit would not have been approved.

 

Part of our job as a BSA leader is to be knowledgeable of the rules, regs, and policies of the BSA. These are not deeply hidden secrets. The G2SS is even online where anyone can access it.

 

 

[MNBob]

Ok, another question then since my son will soon be part of a Boy Scout Troop. For those of you who are part of a Troop right now, how would you handle this scenario:

The Scouts select a Troop activity such as going to the place I describe above. A parent who is not the leader (or I suppose even a leader) mentions that laser tag is an unauthorized activity. The Scoutmaster says something like "It's ok because we don't plan to file a tour permit and we've done this before. It's only laser tag."

[NealOnWheels]

Then you as a parent can decide that you have no faith in the Scoutmaster's judgement and select a different troop.

[frankpalazzi]

The G2SS is a dull, dry read. Has anyone ever tried to sit and read, much less interpret, the whole thing? You'll have about as much success as with the writings of Chaucer in Middle English. Fact is, laser tag IS prohibited, because it involves pointing and shooting a "weapon". No one gets hurt, right? Well...if someone were to slip and fall, break a bone, get a concussion, etc., then there would be problems. G2SS in a nutshell says this(MY interpretation):

 

"Here are the things you CAN'T do. If you do them and someone gets hurt, the BSA will not stand behind you, your leaders, or your CO. The council insurance policy will not cover these activities."

 

Laser tag is a fun game, and years ago our troop members would get together for it frequently. The adult "in charge" (usually the SM) would emphasize to the scouts and parents that this is NOT a Troop activity, and is being done at your own risk. Parents were fine with that.

 

It's all about liability, nothing more.

 

YIS,

Frank

[DeadSkunk]

I read the G2SS. Dull? I guess. Certainly not impossible to read through.

 

I don't recall it saying why these activities are prohibited. I'd guess that there's more to it than simple worry about slipping and falling. There's enough of that in the woods.

 

I think it has to do with responsibility and attitude about firearms. Some feel that once you're responsible enough to handle the real thing, toys that reinforce non-safe behavior should be left behind.

 

[Scoutfish]

Why is it banned? I;m completely guessing here, but why not.

Somebody doesn't like the idea of anything to do with guns being pointed at their kids. Not laser tag guns, not cap guns, not even your pointer finger with your thumb "cocked" back.

 

Wht? Because we all know that if you even thought it for a second.. it will lead to a life of crime! Ha ha ha! Yeah, it's rediculous!

 

But there could be another side to it too. Laser pointers have been know to cause eye damage . It has been documented by "People who study laser pointer eye damage"! I'd think the goggles you wear while playing laser tag would filter that particuler eye damage light out, but I am not a "People who study laser tag eye damage" expert.

 

Then it comes down toi what may be the real answr: Liability! Yep! If BSA bans anything that might possibly be considered dangers ( not to include knives, real guns, bodies of water or actual honest to goodness fires) , then you can not sue BSA and get money from BSA.

 

CYA to the 10th degree!

[frankpalazzi]

You got it Scoutfish!!! The whole "pointing and shooting" thing was just a theory, but plausible huh?

I remember at our summer camp an "Action Archery" course where the targets were pictures of deer and other small game that you would "bow hunt" as you traversed the course. One year, all the targets were changed to bulls-eye targets! When I asked why, I got the expected answer, "BSA doesn't allow shooting at pictures of living things" (same rule implemented at the rifle range too, same year.) Political correctness run amock? Yes! Someday perhaps someone will come to their senses and realize that when one goes hunting, they will not be looking for brightly colored targets in the woods...