Scouts Fighting

[Mafaking]

On a recent campout one scout messed it up with two other scouts.

 

The story

The scouts had free time between 3:00 - 5:00. In the area around the campsite the scouts ganged up into hideouts. The breakdown was almost by patrol but not entirely.

 

One scout goes over to another gangs HQ and grabs a favorite stick. The scouts come back see that their favorite stick is gone and head over to firmly demand the return of their favorite stick. The scout who took the stick jumps on one of the scouts and trows him into the thorn bushes. Then the same aggressor jumps on another scout strangles him, them releases him on the ground. Then the aggressor flips off the scout on the ground, wishes he were dead and when the scout gets up the aggressor cold cocks him in the eye.

 

When confronted I hear all sorts of stories about the stick and where it came from...

 

Finally when asked to apologise the aggressor says he doesn't regret it one bit. They deserved it. he says

He has no remorse.

 

I didn't send the scout home. He is a special needs scout whose father was so proud that his son was finally going camping without him. I spoke to the father upon on return our return Sunday and told hom the whole story. His father said that around 5:00 PM is when is medice wears off.

 

I told the scout who was strangled and again his mother that his actions were examplerly. He did everything right.

 

thoughts?

 

 

(This message has been edited by mafaking)

[le Voyageur]

 

 

Lord of the Flies....I see where certain advancement requirements would be set to zero for a very long time....

[Stosh]

When I was a kid, the school district's policy was to purchase a set of boxing gloves and let the boys wail away on each other.

 

However, something along the lines of some sort of competition be used to determine who gets the stick, i.e. prize.

 

Some sort of court with judge and jury could determine the outcome as well.

 

There has to be a better way to demonstrate to the boys that physical violence is not the way to handle the situation. Which ever way is chosen should be designed to reinforce alternative methods to violence.

 

Gee, when I was a scout it used to be the tent peg revenge that always settled it. With today's free-standing tents, that doesn't work as well...

 

Stosh

[OldGreyEagle]

First a Disclosure

 

My Son is ADD and was on Ritalin his entire Scouting Career, up to and past earning Eagle, a Silver Palm and was elected Patrol Leader for the 2001 National Jamboree. At no time was an excuse that his medication wore off ever became acceptable for unscoutlike behavior

 

Now, the behavior displayed here may be a bit beyond ADD and into the Aspergers arena, you say the father was proud because his son was camping on his own, yet the son's independence and father's good feelings cannot come at the compromise of the other scouts safety. We had an Aspergers Scout who was asked to leave the troop after two physical altercations that he started. He could not be controlled and it was very hard to say good bye to him but we in the committee could not look in the eyes of the other youth and their parents and guarantee this boys behavior would not jeopardize other troop members health and well being. When you say "strangle" that is disturbing, strangling can result in dire results quite quickly, is this a new behavior?

 

The father indicates that his meds wore off, for what malady? How is he controlled at home? It may be a great thing the boy is on his own, but if the father has to be there to administer meds, then he might have to be there. The safety of the other scouts is as important, or perhaps more so (the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few)

 

Do you have special needs volunteers? Because my son wa ADD, I could see it in others and perhaps I was lenient on them when it came to stying on task, but the safety of others possessions and health cannot be compromised by a troop with good intentions

[CA_Scouter]

There must be some consequences for the scouts behavior. Medicine wearing off might be a parial explanation but its not an excuse for violent behavior. At a minimum, the scout should apologize before being permitted to attend another campout. A Scoutmaster conference with the scout and parent should be held as well.

 

If you don't come down hard on this, you'll be dealing with it every campout, and other scouts will start to misbehave if this one continues to get away with it...

 

 

 

[dg98adams]

At a minimum, the Committee needs to be informed of an escalation of more than pushing & shoving.

 

A sock to the face and attempted strangling is not something to brush off. Possible negligence.

 

A scuffle, where both Scouts are similar size, equally at fault, and suffer minimal but equal damage, maybe just bounce them both from the outing. Maybe. Still the committee need informed (in writing preferred)

 

I am gonna bet the aggressor is bigger/and older.

 

Am I close?

 

 

[perdidochas]

Let me get this clear:

 

Scouts are messing around during freetime.

 

Scout A goes to Scout B's camp and steals their stick.

 

Scout Bs demands their stick back.

 

Scout A jumps on Scout B1 and throws him in the briarpatch, and then jumps on and strangles Scout B2, throws him on the ground, flips him off, wishes he were dead. Then B2 gets up, and Scout A hits him.

 

That is the way I read your description. If that's the case, B2 is the scout who was strangled. What did the B scouts do wrong, other than verbally get angry about a silly stick? I would ask that if Scout A goes on camping trips, that his Dad accompany him. He's not ready for that time without firm supervision (which isn't a SM or ASM role).

[Mafaking]

 

dg98adams wrote:

"I am gonna bet the aggressor is bigger/and older."

Yep!

Two grades up and a foot taller.

 

 

 

 

[Scoutfish]

I have to agree with OGE.

 

 

You want to do what you can to include everybody, and you also want to take thier circumstances into consideration, but there is a line that should not be crossed:

 

The line of physical safety.

 

I can tell you all day long that my son might not really know what he's doing when he breaks your son's arm.., but that arm is still broken, it still hurts and it could happen again.

 

The overall welfare of the group is more important than the welfare of just one!

[Knot Head]

If this had happened in our troop

I suspect he would have immediately been bounced from the campout for strangling and punching another scout.

There would be an individual BOR for each scout involved. The guys who took the stick need to explain why they did what they did and if in their opinion it is in line with the scout oath. It does not sound very friendly, courteous or kind. Teachab;e moment.

The big guy who threw a punch and strangled a kid is in an entirely different class. He would have at least one BOR and maybe more until he understood the gravity of the situation and why what he did is unacceptable.

1. Until he shows remorse and offers a sincere apology he wont be camping again. He may have to miss a couple of campouts depending on his attitude. He would be on very thin ice in our troop if he had strangled a smaller scout. Very thin ice.

2. Dad would have to accompany him on all future campouts.

3. He is on probation for the rest of his time (or at least a very long time) in the troop. One more fight or incident and hes gone.

(This message has been edited by knot head)

[acco40]

What was the response of the SPL? If I were Scoutmaster, I would ask that the SPL address this issue at the next PLC and give him some info about meddling/worried/irate parents, ideas about how to prevent this from happening, possible punishments, behavior expectations, etc.

 

If the PLC decides that "consequences" are in order, the PL for those Scouts with "consequences" should carry out the message delivery.

 

Turn this into a learning experience.

[Eagle732]

I have a little experience with special needs kids. Our troop has a few, we have an outreach program to help boys from all backgrounds and situations be in Scouting. It's true that certain meds wear off at the end of the day and those boys that need them will show the effects of that. that's not an excuse for this extreme and dangerous behavior. Discipline is in order. My theory is that when a Scout becomes such a liability that the boys that want to be in the troop and live by the Ideas are ready to quit because of the disrupters then its time for them to go.

[evmori]

This is real simple. The Scout calls mom & dad to come pick him up immediately. And when mom & dad get there, let them know with little Johnny present, he has been suspended from the Troop for 60 days and the only way he will be allowed back is if he is truly remorseful and apologizes to the Scout he injured with the entire Troop present.

 

This type of behavior can not be tolerated.

 

Oh yeah, ya might as well let mom & dad know that there could be repercussions from the injured Scouts parents.

 

Then you as the Scoutmaster have a sit down with the rest of the Troop. This isn't a discussion. It is a lecture by the Scoutmaster detailing how this type of behavior is not permitted in this Troop or civilized society.

[Horizon]

I would hold a BOR for the Special Needs Scout. Scoutmaster, plus 3 BOR members. Talk to the Scout, ask him what happened. Let the BOR determine the appropriate response.

[JoeBob]

I have a couple of physically aggressive kids in my Bear Den of 14.

 

At what age is a Go-See-It to the county lock-up appropriate?