Killing for food (not hunting)

[asichacker]

Most of Scouting is about Testosterone, not survival.

 

You want to teach them something useful about the food chain, teach them how to farm and butcher properly so they are providing for more than just themselves.

 

Reality is that unless you're living in wilderness a majority of the time (which if you're posting here, you probably aren's), these activities provide nothing more than a "Yeah, when I was a kid I did _____."

 

Scouting is so arrogant.

 

 

[Mike F]

asichacker,

 

Wow - according to your profile, your interests are "Youth baseball coach, no involvement in Scouting. Don''t see Scouting as beneficial."

 

I appreciate the work you do as a coach. My boys all played baseball and I'm glad guys like you had the skills and desire to share your passion for the game with them. I never slammed my kid's coaches because I knew they understood the details of the game and instruction better than me. And I have never been inclined to wander by the local ball fields to criticize coaches of random teams.

 

Why do you feel a need to wander by this forum to criticize me for doing my best to deliver a program in which you have no involvement?

 

Were both meeting the needs of boys as they grow into young men of character who are better prepared for life. Some are attracted and excel on your playing field and some do better on mine. A few benefit greatly from both. Our teams look different, but our goals are really very similar.

 

[boomerscout]

"You want to teach them something useful about the food chain, teach them how to farm and butcher properly so they are providing for more than just themselves."

When your sons are in the military, and stuck behind enemy lines, or working with a non-profit overseas when the earthquake strikes, and they run out of "official" food, you want them to starve to death?

[Pamedic18]

asichacker

 

First of all you said that this event was "Inappropriate at best. Dangerous at the worst" How would you say so? If you had read the posts of the user who started the thred you would have known that they obtained the rabbit from a breeder who raises with the intent on selling for food. Althought this is not something well known there are many many people who raise rabbits for taht reason and rabbit is considered healther than chicken. Also im sure the MB instructor did varify that the meat was thoughly cooked. So where is the danger?? Then you claimed it was inappropriate. Remember this was tought as apart of a wilderness surivle MB course. now this is a popular MB for 2 reasons, it is a fun MB and it teaches valuable skills to boys who should be going out in to the wilderness. Although not a regular occurance people do get lost in the "woods" and at times are left to fend for them selves for days. The purpose of this MB is to teach boys who do go in to the woods who my not be used to it those skills that he may need to survive. this is no different than the vastly popular Lse Stroud or Bear Grils do on their TV shows it is just a hands on approach. But as you closed your account you will never read this and you are just another person out there who never had the chance to be a scout and see the organization as a "paramilitary organization" or as you say it a group of arrogant people who are about a testosterone high and not about being prepared for any situation or getting kids out in to the woods who would insted be stuck in the city practiceing base ball on their wii.

[Engineer61]

Wife and I both agreed that we would not permit participation in this activity.

[zippyboro]

"... and not about being prepared for any situation or getting kids out in to the woods who would insted be stuck in the city practiceing base ball on their wii. "

 

hahahaha... these are the only options? Killing for food and the grand experience of it vs. playing video games all weekend? I never thought of scouting on such a narrow focus, nor did I see scouting as a venue to teach disaster survival skills.

 

Clearly the original poster is not from the northeast where this would never fly.

[Mike F]

I know we had one scout family who decided not to attend because of the planned rabbit dinner, but 25 scouts had a great experience with some saying this was the best campout ever. Not just because of the rabbit, but more due to the survival scenario and challenges they faced.

The scout who skipped the campout has been active since and nobody buy me knows why he wasn't there. It's no big deal. We camp all year and he's free to skip one for whatever reason. Or he's free to transfer to another local troop if he doesn't like our program.

 

By the way, this wasn't just a Survival MB course -- this has become an annual event since the PLC insisted on doing it the first time 4-5 years ago. We cover MB basics and have expanded it to include many different kinds of shelters, signal options, etc. To keep it interesting, we set up scenarios which are played out over the entire weekend.

 

To repeat, the rabbits were an idea which came totally from the PLC. When they floated the idea, I challenged them to figure out how to make it work. They found the rabbit farm, found a willing adult leader/trainer, and took initiative to buy one for a practice session at a PLC meeting a few days later. The guys moved so quickly, it caught most of adults by surprise.

 

Other posters have posed questions about how to keep the guys involved as they get older. Our guys are active all the way through High School and some while they are in college. I believe the challenge of coming up with new ideas and the excitement/fulfillment of carrying them out is a big reason why.

 

Your mileage may vary.

[Engineer61]

I dunno Mike, I don't buy the excuse...

 

"To repeat, the rabbits were an idea which came totally from the PLC. When they floated the idea, I challenged them to figure out how to make it work."

 

So, if the PLC suggests it, it's automatically accepted by the SM's??

 

Regardless of the activity? Regardless of the local public sentiment? Local law? Religious contradictions?

 

So if your PLC suddenly decides they want to learn to modify semi-automatic weapons and make 1000's of rounds of ammo, it's OK with the SM's because the PLC came up with the idea? (Ok...this is an extreme hypothetical.

 

Where exactly do we, as responsible adults, draw the line for those who are years and years away from fully understand the long term impact of their immediate actions?

 

[Engineer61]

I did some more thought about this...

 

Granted, the meat that we eat must be killed. (Having worked in a meat packing plant, I am well experienced in that fact).

 

However with the exception of frontier days, and even then only when necessary, the killing of the animals is exclusively done by adults. Not because the strength or know how, but because of the moral aspects of it and how it impacts children.

 

My Grandmother would go out and kill a chicken for dinner, but that aspect was never permitted to happen in from of children, it was not an event for children to watch or participate in.

 

For your boys to think it was a great experience, can be somewhat disturbing. Did they learn that killing for need (food) is different than killing for fun (sport)? I don't know...but I'll bet there are some of those boys that do not have a clear line of distinction on that subtle point.

[Engineer61]

I did some more thought about this...

 

Granted, the meat that we eat must be killed. (Having worked in a meat packing plant, I am well experienced in that fact).

 

However with the exception of frontier days, and even then only when necessary, the killing of the animals is exclusively done by adults. Not because the strength or know how, but because of the moral aspects of it and how it impacts children.

 

My Grandmother would go out and kill a chicken for dinner, but that aspect was never permitted to happen in from of children, it was not an event for children to watch or participate in.

 

For your boys to think it was a great experience, can be somewhat disturbing. Did they learn that killing for need (food) is different than killing for fun (sport)? I don't know...but I'll bet there are some of those boys that do not have a clear line of distinction on that subtle point.

 

I view Scouting as a means to train a boy to be a moral man, the outdoor activities should be geared to that primary focus, a means to an end, not the other way around.

 

The more I am learning, the more I realize that I have to closely monitor my boy's Troop and the SM's in that Troop.

[The Blancmange]

Engineer61 - Would you let your son work on the fishing MB, which requires him to clean and cook a fish that he caught?

[DeadSkunk]

Around my way, kids start hunting at 12 years old. I don't see what's so disturbing about it. This has been going on for generations.

 

[boomerscout]

The moral aspects of killing and cleaning your own dinner rather than buying it from a store? You've totally thrown me,here!

Are you concerned this may become some Ramboesque event? If so, your Scouts could learn how animals are killed in a kosher slaughterhouse. Some Native Americans used to thank the spirit of the animal for giving them sustenance; you might consider something similar.

How do your children grow-up if everything is kept from them?

[Scoutfish]

 

 

 

The moral aspects of it???

 

 

I dunnoh! I think "Killing for food, not sport" is a GREAT moral aspect!

 

THings is, store bought meat is still killed.

 

To say just because you didn't kill the meat that youare going to eat - is no different than saying "I didn't rob the guy who's money I am about to spend.....my friend did.

 

 

The animal was still killed either way, You still eat it either way.

The moralistic point here is that you do it only for food and not for sport or trophy.

 

I teach my son that we do not keep any fish we do not plan to eat or give to other to eat.

 

I love venison and deer jerky. I love rabbit and pheasant too. Even had some fried alligator. I don't have a problem with it.

 

But I do not respect those who kill animals just for their antlers, hide or feet and leave the rest of the body untouched.

 

And as mentioned, how about for survival? I never did see any wild Spam trees or Dinty Moore beef stew trees in any woods I've been to.

[zippyboro]

agreed engineer. There is so much more to scouting than reenacting a survivor episode.