Scouts who drive

[Scoutfish]

Okay, this isn't an issue yet as my Bear cub son just turned 9 a few weeks ago.

 

And this is only my second year in scouting, first as an ADL , and I have no previous experience myself as a child involving scouting.

 

So, when my son turns 16 , and can legally drive in NC - unless they change something about that ......would he be allowed top drive to scout functions?

 

Now, I'm not saying that I am completely ditching him, not that I wouldn't want to go camping here or there...but sometimes a teenager just wants to do thing himself. Well, actually, with anybody besides mom and dad! LOL! Granted, that might be the time he needs the most supervision, but you can't be there for everything!

 

So if it concerns meeting up with everybody to start a camping trip, or a scout outing or even going to some place like Jamboree..can he drive?

 

I'm just curious. Don't know why I even thought of it, but I did.

[Basementdweller]

Directly from the guide to safe scouting

 

The driver must be currently licensed and at least 18 years of age. Youth member exception: When traveling to and from an area, regional, or national Boy Scout activity or any Venturing event under the leadership of an adult (at least 21 years of age) tour leader, a youth member at least 16 years of age may be a driver, subject to the following conditions:

 

1. Six months' driving experience as a licensed driver (time on a learner's permit or equivalent is not to be counted)

2. No record of accidents or moving violations

3. Parental permission granted to the leader, driver, and riders

 

The answer appears to me to be yes he can if it is ok with the Event/Outing Leader with the other 3 conditions being met.

 

Now you understand that this can all change tomorrow.

[Scoutfish]

Not sure if it matters, but I didn't mean in an oficial duty or function. Not transporting other scouts, equipment or his buddies. Just meant drving himself.

 

Not that I have to worry about it for at least 7 years. And by then, he may drive his hoverbike or something!

[Twocubdad]

Really?

 

www.ncdot.org is probably a more appropriate site.

 

 

[Oak Tree]

Yeah, so as written, this policy would seem to prevent Scouts from driving themselves to troop meetings, but it's almost inconceivable that that is the intent of this policy.

 

It might depend on how you interpret "area". If you take it mean the official BSA area (a subdivision of a region, but larger than a council), then the policy would prohibit Scouts from driving to any troop, district, or council event. If you take it to be a generic word meaning "around here", then a Scout could drive to any event that met the conditions.

 

In practice, many troops have their own troop rules (I will avoid calling them by-laws for now) about who is able to drive. Some won't let anyone under 21 drive other Scouts around. Our troop would pretty much let any Scout drive himself.

[IM_Kathy]

my son's troop has never needed a young man to drive himself or others on campouts and such. They will ocasionally drive to the CO location and meet up and load with the rest of the young men. We typically take as many adults as needed to drive the scouts - though when we winter tent we always take an extra adult for emergencies.

[evmori]

Not sure if it matters, but I didn't mean in an oficial duty or function. Not transporting other scouts, equipment or his buddies. Just meant drving himself.

 

Not that I have to worry about it for at least 7 years. And by then, he may drive his hoverbike or something!

 

As his parent, this would be completely up to you. If it involves Scouting activities, follow the current G2SS when your son turns 16. Hopefully this thread will still not be active when he does.

[SR540Beaver]

Hmmmm, my "almost 17" year old "almost Eagle Scout" son drove himself 160 miles roundtrip between camp and home on his 24 hours off on weekends while staffing cub resident camp. He along with many of his peers drive themselves to the Webelos Crossover ceremonies they perform as well as OA Chapter meetings and Troop meetings. On occasion, a scout has driven to a campout if he had to work on Friday evening.

[Beavah]

Yah, this is goin' to be another one of those funky things, eh?

 

In this case, G2SS is tryin' to limit the insurance exposure of da BSA. Young inexperienced drivers are a big risk ... but then so are tired older drivers on long trips.

 

So the best read for what G2SS is sayin' is no young inexperienced drivers as regular drivers on trips where the unit is providing transportation or otherwise driving together. In other words, in conditions where it may be reasonably inferred that the unit is responsible for transportation.

 

When the unit is just holdin' a meeting and it's up to the parent(s) of the boys to get them to the meeting, so the responsibility is theirs and not the units, then yeh don't worry about it. If a parent wants to let their 16 year old drive the carpool, and parents of other boys are OK with them riding with a 16 year old driver, it's OK. If a camp staffer is drivin' himself to camp, OK.

 

The exception is an odd one, eh? They tightened it up too much in da last rewrite, IMHO, limiting it to National events. Just bein' silly. How many Area events are there, really? The old wordin' made more sense, or maybe limitin' it to events for which a National Tour Permit is filed. I'd still tend to read it as a "if you're on a long trip and yeh have a capable youth driver with a good record and it's OK with da parents of everyone in the car, it's OK to trade off drivin' duties to be safer and more alert." And of course, if you need to do it because the adult driver went and broke his leg, then dat's OK too.

 

Beavah

 

[Lisabob]

I agree that the business of kids getting to and from weekly meetings is really beyond what this policy is about.

 

It seems most of us agree that young drivers should not be driving other scouts around, and there is plenty of statistical evidence to back this up (accidents more likely when the number of teens in the car together increases). Of course when we talk about statistics we are talking in general terms, and I am certain that there are plenty of kids out there who are very conscientious, safe drivers. Still, by definition, younger drivers are less experienced drivers. In most normal circumstances, that should trump any arguments about "tired leaders." (broken legs, heart attacks, and bear attacks not withstanding) If your leaders are too tired to drive then you either need more leaders, or better planning. The answer here isn't to expect your older teens to substitute as drivers in most cases. This is also why we are expected to do various safety trainings and fill out tour permits, so we think these things through when planning outings.

 

So the policy, to me, seems to be a backstop for common sense. I think most scout leaders and most parents are going to be uncomfortable with having children drive other children around. Some scout leaders, though, do appear to lack common sense from time to time, hence we have these policies.

 

 

[boomerscout]

in many states, if he is 16 or 17, then he can't have any passengers (except for parent, guardian or trainer), or be driving at night. Also, many campgrounds have limited number of parking spots.

So, driving to the troop meeting probably OK, but can't drive home if it has gotten dark.

[Beavah]

in many states

 

Yah, can't say fer sure what's happenin' on the coasts, but I think what yeh probably mean here is "in a few states", not "many states".

 

I also get a bit annoyed by biased research of da sort Lisabob reports. Chance of an accident increases with number of people in the car, period. Doesn't matter what the age of the driver is. Put more adults in the car and distractions go up. Put young kids in the car with an adult driver and distractions go WAY up. IIRC, a parent drivin' around one or two young ones is more dangerous than a teen who is text messaging. Older folks also have statistically higher accident rates, eh?

 

So when yeh find yourself being in favor of nanny state restrictions on young drivers based on statistics, remember that those same statistical arguments can end up applying to taking freedoms away from you.

 

Such approaches make for bad law.

 

Beavah

[nolesrule]

All states have an intermediate driver license period between learning permit and full license (learning permit, intermediate and full license ages vary by state). In 15 states, that lasts until 18. Just about every state, including all 15 where the intermediate period lasts until age 18, there are restrictions against unsupervised nighttime driving (hours vary by state and standard or DST, day of the week, etc.) which apply to, at the very least, 16 year old drivers (some to 16.5, some to 17 and some to 17.5). In some cases, it is only a secondary violation, in others, a primary.

 

In addition, many states have an age-based or license stage-based restriction of some type on passengers in the vehicle.

 

EDIT: About 40 states have these passenger restrictions. Some restrictions are based on age limits on passengers, some only allow direct family members as passengers. In addition, the allowed passenger count can vary.

 

Since almost every state has some kind of intermediate nighttime restriction and about 40 (of 50) states have sort of passenger restriction, I'd say that qualifies as "many".(This message has been edited by nolesrule)

[Beavah]

Since almost every state has some kind of intermediate nighttime restriction and about 40 (of 50) states have sort of passenger restriction, I'd say that qualifies as "many".

 

Come, come. If yeh change the question, yeh change da answer.

 

The statement was that "in many states, if he is 16 or 17 he can't drive any passengers". That statement isn't true.

 

If yeh change it to "in many states, a youth who is still operatin' under an intermediate license may have some sort of restrictions" then that is true.

 

They're just not da same thing.

 

Statistically, nighttime vision declines with age after age 30. Watch for statistically based laws limiting your right to drive at night comin' down the pike someday. Statistically, certain racial and ethnic groups have worse driving records. Anybody ready to propose they should all be put on probationary licenses because of their race?

 

These are just bad laws. We tolerate 'em only because of our prejudice against the young.

 

Beavah

 

[boomerscout]

Many means numerous or more than one. It's an indefinite count because I didn't feel like accessing every state's site. Now, if I had said "most", then I would be really incorrect.

Should there be restrictions on new drivers? You betcha! They should be made to display an "L" for learner on the rear of their car.