Youth Protection, Camping , and Family

[Scoutfish]

I have a question , that doesn't quite fall into the guidlines of YP. Well,maybe it does and I don't see it.

 

I have a nephew with less than enthusiastic parents: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=263903

 

So there is a possibility that neither of his parents would be willing to take him to our spring pack campout.That would suck for him and I'd hate for him to mis that oppertunity.

 

So if I was to take him, and adhering to YP guidlines...

 

Would my nephew be able to stay in my tent with my son and myself?

 

I'm thinking his mom could write a note allowing me to be some sort of temp guardian when she signs the camping permission slip.

 

Now,I'll be honest...I'm 6'2" tall and weigh 249 pounds. My son and I pretty much almost fill up our "4 man" tent.

We could squeeze him in, but it would be snug.

 

I'd rather my nephew have his own tent beside mine Or my son sleep in my nephew's tent with his cousin, and I sleep alone!

 

Actually, I'd love to do it the last way, but in the real world of "spooky woods full of killer attack ninja space robots" and whatever else their imagination come up with 5 mins before bed time - might mean my nephew wouldn't like it,. my son wouldn't like it and there would be problems.

 

So in reality, I'm thinking my nephew should stay in our tent with us.

 

So. What does Youth Protection say about this? Is this sorta thing allowed or not?

[lrsap]

I'm not 100% sure on the YP regulations regarding nephews, but I do have one suggestion. I agree them in a tent and you alone would be perfect. Would it be possible for the two of them to do a back yard campout on their own as a test run?

[Oak Tree]

Not officially allowed.

 

The approved answer is to put your nephew in a tent with your son, and have you sleep alone. Or your nephew could sleep alone, but that's probably not what you want. A few times I've slept alone on a campout, after my kids got to the point where they wanted to stay in a tent with a friend. It's nice.

[shortridge]

Short answer: No, your nephew can't stay in the same tent as you and your son.

 

Long answer:

 

The relevant sentence from the Guide to Safe Scouting: "When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian."

 

The simplest solution is the one you came up with - have your son and nephew tent together, and you tent next to them.

[evmori]

From the G2SS

 

Separate accommodations.

When camping, no youth is permitted to sleep in the tent of an adult other than his own parent or guardian.

 

If you are deemed this boy's guardian for the weekend by his parents, he can stay in the same tent with you. The ideal situation would be both boys stay in a tent and you in yours. Plus, the suggestion of a backyard trial run is a great idea.

[Eagle92]

I'ld go with the boys in a separate tent. AND a backyard tryout is awesome as boys LOVE camping! Well at least my two keep buggin me when they can go campign again.

[Eamonn]

I don't read the guideline the same way as Ed does!

The "Book" answer is that he can't.

I'd go with the kids in one tent and you in another.

If I were in your situation a lot would depend on my relationship with my nephew.

If he was the kid that was always in my house and we did a lot of stuff outside of Scouting? I'd more than lightly turn a blind eye to the guideline.

But if he was a kid that I only seen once a week at the Den Meeting and had little interaction with I'd have him not stay with me.

I know this sounds like I'm playing around with the rules, but there are different courses for different horses.

Ea.

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

The last Council Family Camp I went to, another family in the campsite we were in (not from our pack) had an unusual tenting arrangement. It was basically 3 tents, a larger (say 4 man) tent with two smaller (say 2 man) tents, one on either side, and the smaller ones were connected to the bigger one by nylon "tunnels". If I noticed who made it I've forgotten, but perhaps something like that would satisfy YP guidelines and keep the boys feeling secure as well.

 

I guess a two room tent would violate the letter of G2SS, but might be an acceptable compromise.

 

Regards,

 

DWS

[DancesWithSpreadsheets]

addendum; this might have been what I saw:

 

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4664258

[Beavah]

Yah, I've said it before, but it's worth repeatin'.

 

Pretending that it's "youth protection" to forcibly separate a youth from the boy's relative and da parents' designated representative is foolish. Opens yeh up to all kinds of problems and personal and institutional consequences. That clause in G2SS was meant to apply to non-relative scouters and others, not to apply to grandparents and uncles who are actin' in the parents' stead.

 

Scoutfish, IMO you should do what makes sense for the boys in question. If the separate tent nearby thing works and will be safe for 'em, go for it! More fun for them and for you. Otherwise, your duty is to take care of the boys, eh?

 

Beavah

 

[Scoutfish]

If I knew they wouldn't saty up til 3 am, I'd tell them something like: "Well boys, BSA rule 12-4 says that when two boys travel to a campout in the same truck, they have to sleep apart from the adult who drove. Sorry, but that's the rules!"

 

 

LOL! Honestly, I'd rather sleep by myself, but young boys still being YOUNG boys, I could see issues arising.

 

My son is big boy until something get's hurt....Gotta find MOM! Then even if he doesn't cry to her arms, he at least has to let her check it out and "OK" it!

 

Not sure what my nephew does. Don't want to be waken up at 1 am because he wants to go home or snuggle. I suppose if he sleeps in my tent WITH MY SON and me, that would be avoided, but still not my first choice.

[shortridge]

Beavah,

 

Just what are these scary problems personal and institutional consequences of which you speak?

[Pack212Scouter]

The official answer is that they would need to tent seperate from you. How this works depends significantly on the boy. Mine for instance has tented with me some, but when we family camp, he has been tenting by himself in a pup tent since he was five. He loves the outdoors and while he respects it, amaizingly he has no "fear" of it. He's the kind of Webelo that I honestly think that you could drop in the woods with a knife and some matches and you'd come back a week later to find a cabin built and him five pounds heavier! I have known far more boys however that are alot more apprehensive. Most tent well with another boy, but some need an adult for security.

[evmori]

The official answer is that they would need to tent seperate from you.

 

And where is this "official" answer in the G2SS?

[shortridge]

evmori,

 

I don't understand where you're coming from.

 

If "parent or guardian" can be interpreted to refer to a temporary guardian, then a non-relative Scoutmaster or ASM could tent with a Scout. That's clearly not the intent and purpose of the G2SS and YP rules.

 

"Parent or guardian" has a very clear meaning in general usage. If you use a very loose interpretation of "guardian," then it seems that any temporary guardian could sign permission slips, medical forms, etc. That's clearly not how things work.