So if "Eagle Mills" only focus on advancement.... what are the other METHODS ?

[DeanRx]

So, I'm interested to hear... we talk a lot about MB, belt loop and Eagle mills and how the sole focus on advancement demeans the overall value of scouting. I'd tend to agree with such a statement.

 

However, let me ask this - What ARE the other main methods of scouting? Because, if I was to ask most parents in my pack, I'm pretty sure advancement is the only one they could name.

 

Secondly, what does your council and national do to promote the other methods of scouting at least equally with advancement? Not to taint the responses, but it does seem national and councils tend to put a fair amount of time into promoting advancement. Annual honor unit citations are based on percentage advanced. Never seen a unit ribbon awarded for 90% or better participation in a campout. Adult leader knots at the den and unit levels are based in part on percent of unit that advances. Eagle is talked of (and mostly rightly so) with so much reverence in BSA circles that it makes it seem advancement IS the only method. No VIP tent at the big scout-o-rama jambo for "Life scout for life" rank, but there is usually a hospitality tent for the Eagle alumni.

 

So what are the other methods? What do we do to promote these methods, so they are on par with advancement?

[BrentAllen]

The Methods are different between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

Boy Scout Methods (8) :

Ideals - Scout Oath and Law (repeat at meetings, use to correct inapporiate behavior)

Patrol Method (how the Scouts are organized, how they work together)

Outdoors (monthly camping trips, summer camp, HA)

Advancement (rank, MBs)

Adult Association (SM conferences, BORs, MB counselors)

Personal Growth (challenging activities, earning MBs)

Leadership Development (holding leadership positions, TLT, NYLT)

Uniform (inspections, badges)

[BDPT00]

It'd be hard to say they're promoted anywhere (except by those who believe strongly in them). They're taught (mentioned) in training and in adult leader manuals, but they're not pushed very hard. Many Scouters have never heard of them, and most would have a hard time making a list. They're all important, and a good leader knows that. They should be used as a measuring tool by Scoutmasters and Commissioners. People may argue about which is most or least important. That depends upon circumstance, and cirumstances change frequently. If any method is ignored, the program is weaker than it should be. An advancement mill doesn't care (and usually doesn't even know about) the seven other methods. That's a weak unit, but many will flock to it because it sounds like success. They do good stuff, and kids learn, but the main focus is getting their ticket punched... not character development and citizenship.

BDPT00

 

[Eagledad]

Troop programs are defined by how the adults interpret and/or apply the eight methods that BrentAllen listed. I can give you a simple example of just how two adults could have two different programs, I don't agree with about half of how BrentAllen defines each method.

 

Its not that one of us more right than the other, its how our lifes experiences define each method to be used for our personal interpretation of scoutings goals and vision. For example, I would never use badges and inspection to define how I applied the Uniform Method while I was SM. I used it to drive character development in the sense of making decisions. Just in the choice of wearing the uniform to a scouting event forces the scout to make a moral choice. Scout Growth to me is a scout purposely learning how to use the Scout Law and Oath while learning from his experiences. However, I am sure that other adults achieve the same growth in their scouts in their different applications of the same methods. But you can see how easily the discussion could get complicated.

 

The main reason many adults focus on Advancement as a method of their program is they are looking for an easy and quick way to measure the success of their program. Of all the methods, Advancement and uniforms are the easiest method to measure performance of a program because it only requires listing the number of badges and advancements gained over a short period of time of just looking at the scout. Im not sure that we as a group could come up with a consensus of a successful Patrol Method or Adult Association, but we certainly could start bragging about first class scouts and Eagles. How often do we hear a troop come back bragging about the number of badges their scouts brought back with them.

 

The interesting thing about Eagle Mills is they tend to be very successful troops. They typically are the larger troops in the area and also typically have a lot of active adults in the district as well as the troop. A boy run troop could be an Eagle Mill if the boys wanted, but boys typically dont enjoy advancement resulting in a program that doesnt use advancement as the primary means of planned activities. Eagle Mills typically are very adult run because they have the authority over the direction of the activities. This is not to say that Eagle Mills dont use the other methods, in fact they typically push all eight methods hard. For example Eagle Mill type programs are typically the best uniformed and sharpest looking scouts in the area.

 

Most adults cant even recite the eight methods because, well because its boring. I had two troop meetings a year while I was SM where I required the parents as well as the scouts attend. I recited both The Three Aims and the Eight Method at those meetings and I spent a few moments explaining how our program used each one of them toward scout growth. I even required the PLC to give me a set of goals based on each method for the next six months, and they were asked to plan an activity for each Method to be performed at each campout. Even after doing all that, Im not sure there was another adult in our program that could recite even half the eight methods. They like the way I led the program, so they didnt really care to memorize something that was pretty much boring to them.

 

So that is the challenge of the BSA. Interpreting the methods as well as applying them kind of comes down to the effort of each adult. New adult leaders generally start with programs that are heavy in Advancement and Uniform because that is easy to see. Where they go from there is generally a function of their vision, if they have one.

 

Barry

 

[acco40]

The Boy Scout program is essentially "use the eight methods to achieve the three aims." It really is that simple.

 

What I don't like to hear is folks who feel they can choose, cafeteria style, from the eight methods to achieve the two out of three aims they think are important - and still feel they are fulfilling the BSA mission.

[Eagledad]

I agree ACCO, but the other difference I didn't mention between Eagle Mills and other troops is Eagle Mills tend to push the methods on the group where as boy run programs push them on each scout depending on the method they are weak at the time. The Eagle Mill SM will tell all the scouts at once how they should dress. The Boy Run SM will leave it up to the SPL and PLC to enforce. The SM then will work with the scouts who struggle with their choice of how they decided to use the uniform. Not because of looks, but because of their choice.

 

When the methods are enforced at the boy level, each boy will need difference guidence depending on their needs at the time.

 

Barry

[BrentAllen]

Barry,

Sorry you didn't my quick and dirty explanation of the methods. If you notice the time of the post, I wrote it up just before heading out the door to work. For the record, I have never conducted a uniform inspection of our Troop. The SPL and PLs conduct a quick one at every meeting. The Scribe records attendance and uniforming for quarterly Honor Patrol competition. This works for us, as our boys are 99% in uniform.

[BDPT00]

"When the methods are enforced at the boy level, each boy will need difference guidence depending on their needs at the time."

 

Correct me if I'm wrong (now there's something I didn't need to say!), but I don't believe the Scouts are taught or need to know the methods. That's for us. So "enforcing the methods at the boy level" per se doesn't make a great deal of sense to me.

BDPT00

[BrentAllen]

The SPL Handbook covers the Methods, so the SPL is exposed to them. Some of the explanations incorporate the SPL position.

[BDPT00]

Right you are! Thanks.

 

[Beavah]

What I don't like to hear is folks who feel they can choose, cafeteria style, from the eight methods to achieve the two out of three aims they think are important - and still feel they are fulfilling the BSA mission.

 

Yah, but maybe they are fulfillin' the CO's mission, eh? That's their only duty as unit scouters. District, council, and national scouters achieve our mission by tryin' to come up with good program materials and workin' to help other organizations with similar values. It's a partnership; those unit fellows who are workin' on achieving their CO's mission aren't a subsidiary.

 

As to choosin' Methods, there are units that I think use uniformin' method well, units I think use it poorly, units that are un-uniformed and ones that are over-the-top. There are units that use Outdoor Method to the max, and others that go trailer campin' durin' the warm weather months.

 

If they achieve what they want for their boys, that's a fine choice. Close as I can tell, there are lots of different combinations of how da methods are used that lead to young men we can all be proud of.

 

So I don't get too wrapped up in whether a unit is usin' all da methods, or usin' every method perfectly. Quite frankly, I've never seen a unit out there that comes close, and when some unit leader claims his unit does 'em all well I quietly chuckle inside. I figure he's either new and naive or old and deaf .

 

Da Scoutin' program is pretty strong, eh? It can take imperfect implementation well, welcome partners with somewhat different goals, and still get da results we want.

 

Beavah

 

 

[Eamonn]

As a Trainer I have been known to go on and on about all the good stuff like the aims and methods.

As a leader??

Kinda have to own up to most of the time putting all that good stuff on a very low back burner.

My main motivation has always been "Hey! That looks like fun!!"

It's easy for me to look at what we have done and pair it up with the methods. But th truth is when we decided to do it, I never really gave these a second thought.

I could take a deep breath, stick my chest out and go on about how the program we have is a "Well rounded program" Which might well be very true?

But more often than not we kinda fall into doing the right thing.

The Patrol that works together cooking and cleaning up at camp is using a lot of the methods. But they cooked the meal because they needed to eat, they worked as a team because they know this gets the job done and they want to get it done so they can move on to the next activity.

We are where we are (At a camp?) Because they said this is where they wanted to be, mainly because being there offered the opportunity to do something that they wanted to do.

Yes I'm very guilty of providing more than a little nudge in planting the idea of us doing it and most times its things that I enjoy doing.

I'm not ever going to push for the Ship to go skiing. I don't ski and it's cold!

They have gone snow tubing, because that is what the QD came up with.

Sure we all have copies of the Sea Scout Manual and do at times use them solely for advancement. We do try and marry up the stuff from the manual with things that we are going to do.

Ea.

[JerseyScout]

As I've mentioned before, I've rebuilt my troop over the last three years or so.

 

I scaled back the advancement method, which had become the purpose for our troop instead of a part of its program. I replacing the hole the scaleback left with a far more exciting and expansive outdoors program (the Outdoor Method) and by reinstating the Patrol Method in all its glory. While we've had some scary moments and some irate parents, I am now raking in new kids by the boatload - 18 in the last 8 months, 8 of whom were never Cub Scouts - with far more competent and responsible older boys.

 

Know what? The advancement method has taken care of itself. The older kids help the younger ones out with getting their books signed, and the younger kids became a lot more interested in advancing through the ranks when they discovered that higher ranks earn you a better spot in the snack line, a better chance to capture a chair by the fire, and other little benefits. The now-older-kids who were thrown into the Patrol Method three years ago are all potential future Eagle Scouts.