Pet Peeve

[Eagle92]

My biggest pet peeve in Scouting is not the units that are not in full uniform, not the leaders with all kinds of do dads on their uniform that are incorrectly worn, and not the lack of communication from national on such things as the recent addition of IOLS to Venturing leaders with outdoor programs. It Scouters who believe that 18-21 yo Scouters and Venturers do not have the KSAs to do a job due to their age. Ok it is that and not believing that an older scout/Venturer who has been through program has the KSA to teach younger youth.

 

Let's face it part of letting Scouts grow is giving them the opportunity to teach what they knwo to younger scouts. As for Venturers several fo the awards require a good bit of knowledge and to teach some one some of the basics in certain areas. I think a 18yo Venturer with the Ranger Award woudl make an ideal MBC for such MBs as Camping, Backpacking, etc. Or that 20 yo ASM who has been doing Native American Dance since he was joined the OA at 14 and has competed at conclaves, NOAC, and has taught at conclave and lodge fellowships would make a good Indian Lore MBC.

 

Scouting gives folks experiences and opportunities to grow and mature faster than their peers, and also responsibility in the various PORs.

 

So why is it that some build up folks as they are youth, only to say they don't know what they are doing once they turn 18? Sorry to ramble on and vent, but this occurred to me when I was in the 18-23 yo bracket (specifically when I became the OA chapter adviser from 21-23,had a SM tell me I don't know what I'm doing or anything about the OA despite me being on the ECM as a youth and a Vigil).And some discussions recently are bringing this back up.

[eghiglie]

 

Thanks for bringing this up. Its great food for thought.

[Eagledad]

I'm sure I would agree, but I'm not sure what you are saying. I think I found a new pet peeve.

 

KSA?

ECM?

[OldGreyEagle]

Heck, you are close to mine. A 19 year old must register as an Assistant Scoutmaster and be an adult, OK I understand that. Then in Venturing, he must register as a youth, ok with me as well.

 

He must pay a full registration both as a youth and as an adult. Not ok

 

A 15 year old Venturer can be in a troop as a youth and a Crew as a youth and not pay two diferent complete registration fees.

[Eagle92]

Sorry about that KSA= Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities.

ECM= Executive Committee Meeting, a term used generically in my old lodge for the lodge officers.

 

 

[jeff-o]

Heh. You should come join our troop. We have 11 year olds who are conducting teaching classes for tenderfoot skills. I imagine by the time they are 17, they will be doing everything, including MB classes (even if they have to officially be under the supervision of an 18 YO merit badge counselor).

[HICO_Eagle]

Eagle92, I can understand why that bugs you. I judge people's KSA based on their demonstrated performance, not their age (or their documented training). Now that I have both age AND experience (wouldn't mind it if I had a little less of the former), I would immediately dump on someone who tried to make a statement about someone else's KSA based on age.

[Beavah]

Yah, I'm with yeh, Eagle92.

 

There's nothing better for the program than a man of age 18-23 who has come up through the ranks. We're never goin' to get any adult who comes in to complete 7 years of training!

 

Havin' watched it over the years in organizations and in laws and policies, I think that as the U.S. population has gotten older and older on average, there's gotten to be more and more prejudice against youth.

 

I think it's a profound shame. Young folks are our best resources, both in Scouting and in other things. They should be treated like the valued colleagues and fellow citizens that they are.

 

Beavah

 

[Eagle92]

Beav,

I think part of the problem is that society is trying to make childhood last longer. Look at how some psychologists say are not fully adults until age 25 based upon brain scans (sorry can't cite source). Look at certain children's medical programs that cover folks until age 25, ie SCHIP. Heck look at some of the 20 and 30 somethings who still act and dress like teenagers with no personal responsibility or accountability.

 

Grant you I had fun prior to being turning 25. BUT I was also supporting myself and putting myself through school. And I while I lived at home during college, I couldn't wait to get out and be on my own. I know folks who are in their late 20s and 30s, but are still living at home. I moved out 1 day after graduating. Only moved back in breifly when I was between jobs (3 months) and when I was looking for a house while the wife remained behind (1 month).

[Nike]

My Pet Peeve is neckers with the slide all the way up and the top button fastened.

 

I don't know why we insist on making childhood longer and longer. Maybe there are just a lot of parents out there whose lives would be totally empty if they didn't have 26 year old Junior and Juniorette still dependent on them.

 

No lone likes to be upstaged, but then, old dogs can learn knew tricks, if they want to.

[shortridge]

I hear you loud and clear.

 

That point of view you criticize is especially ironic because the BSA's summer camp program structure would not exist, with a few exceptions, if not for older Scouts (14-18) hired as instructors and CITs.

[Eagle92]

Nike,

I'll apologize in advance b/c i am one of those who do button the top button on my Centennial Shirt before flipping it under. I've tried and tried with it unbuttoned, but with the "Elvis Collar" it just does not look or feel right.

 

Now on my ODL and Venturing uniform, darn tootin I don't button the top button.

 

Ans yes Short I know the irony. Spent 6 summers on camp staff.

[desertrat77]

Eagle92, I get what you are saying. Some places I've been, there are old timers that are resentful of the young folks...and it's hard to say why.

 

Perhaps the older scouters are jealous because of missed opportunities from their own youth...perhaps they want the young folks to jump thru hoops before they become part of the "team"...perhaps it's basic insecurity, because they know trainees are going to naturally gravitate towards a more dynamic, accomplished young person.

 

It's a darn shame this happens because the young adults who have "graduated" from scouts (to me, doesn't matter what program they were in or rank they earned) are really the best salespeople we have as far as articulating what scouting is all about, getting other folks to training, and encouraging them to stick with the program.

 

As a footnote, I'm not worried about anything that National does. They have their job, we have ours.(This message has been edited by desertrat77)

[baschram645]

Eagle92.

Great Peeve, its mine too. When I was young,(back in the 70's) I was asked to be a Webelos Den Leader. (There were two webelos dens in the Pack at the time) I thought no problem. I went to the SM, got a Den Chief and went to work. I was 20 and very naive. There were 10 scouts in the den. Each month we worked on 3 Activity Badges, and an Arrow of Light requirement or two. Each month the whole den received some award at the Pack Meeting. When the PWD approached we built the cars at one dad's house as a group. When the racing was done 3 out of 4 positions went to the scouts in my den. 1st, 2nd and 4th. When the B & G Banquet rolled around the boys won best table setting. When the Arrow of Light/Cross over ceremony was held for the two dens in May all 10 of my cubs had earned the Arrow of Light and 4 earned all the Activity Badges, only 5 boys from the other den earned the AOL. Eight of my cubs joined scouts and a few years later 3 made Eagle. The whole time this was going on several other den leaders and a few parents had started complaining about how my den was getting this or doing that and why weren't the other dens winning this or going here, etc... Being the Tactful people that they were they never would or could say anything to my face. So the night our last Pack meeting the CM and CC thanked me for my help. I asked if they want me to take on another den? The CC stated that alot of the parents didn't think I was a good fit for the program. Being naive I asked what he meant. Boy I got an earful. Quite an epiphany in politics. I never realized that I wasn't there to teach scouting just baby sit and stare at the all knowing ADULTS.

 

The biggest shock to most of the Pack Leaders and parents was that I was an ASM in the local troop as well. "Oh I thought you quit scouts", or "I didn't know you are with the troop" was a frequent statement I heard for a couple of years. The SM and other ASM's usually stated that I was a good fit with the kids because of my AGE.

 

This whole experience gave me such a sour taste that when my son joined Tiger cubs I never volunteered for anything. I would go with them places. Be a partner and all but I didn't have a scout background at all!

 

To this day I do not believe that there is a place for politics in scouting. It has no place in dealing with our youth or our younger leaders. To play games leads to bad feelings. They are the future and we need them all.

 

And if I ever become an old fuddy duddy I hope they put me out to pasture.

 

 

 

[acco40]

Politics is a process by which groups of people make decisions.

Politics is and should be part of Scouting and our everyday life. The problem is, folks now use that term in a pejorative sense.

 

In Cub Scouts, adults (Akela) teach. In Boy Scouts, adults mentor, boys teach.

 

My biggest pet peeve is still Scouters who don't know the program. The program aims are not to teach "scouting" skills but character, citizenship and to develop personal fitness.