Transportation: Caravan?

[Crossramwedge]

I am with Beavah on this one. One need not ride on ones bumper when following someone. Just keep them in line of sight. What if there is a vehicle breakdown and that vehicle is carrying most of the gear. What if a deer runs out and smacks a vehicle. It just makes since to at least stay with in proximity of each other. You can follow a vehicle and be safe. Just distance yourself. I would not call vehicles a quarter of a mile apart "Caravaning".

 

 

[evmori]

There are good & bad things about caravaning. I personally feel caravaning is a good thing! The entire group can stay together. Naturally every vehicle has directions. This will help eliminate the need to stay too close together.

[John-in-KC]

Beavah wrote, in part:

 

Buddy system vs. stupid convoying. Balance and prudence, eh? Balance and prudence are what make for safety, not policy.

 

I like this idea, a lot. I also like the concept of prepping for a trip, especially the first drive to a new location.

 

The other Godsend of the modern era is a cell phone. If someone gets between a rock and a hard place, the right-seater can call another car in the unit.

 

I also believe in Tail-Gunner Charlie. He or she is the designated back end of the unit. The task at hand is to make sure all other unit wheels are not left behind. That other car in the unit from the paragraph above? Tail-Gunner Charlie is the car to call!

 

[gcnphkr]

One other problem with a caravan that has not been mentioned. Car break downs. Now many will say that it is better to be in a caravan if a vehicle breaks down. Perhaps if you are abandoning the vehicle or needing to go get what is needed to repair it. But from a safety POV it is very unsafe. Having a half dozen vehicles pulled over on the shoulder greatly increases the chance of being hit. I can think of few things more concerning than 30 scouts milling around on the side of the road waiting for a car to be fixed.

[scoutldr]

Check with your scouts...SOMEONE probably has a new Smartphone with GPS capability...might be too pricey for us, but not for Billy's mom who thinks uniforms are too expensive.

 

(sorry...was that bad decorum?)

[Eagledad]

The rule came about when National found that most of the accidents during BSA trips were in convoys or caravans. After a few close calls during the years, we migrated to non caravan transports.

 

I also agree with Beav and Lisa that some folks need a buddy to feel comfortable finding a camp, so we also had a rule of no more than two cars caravaning together, and even then use common sense spacing.

 

Many folks complained that cars could be spread out for miles and cause problem. We typically had 3 or 4 trips a year at least 600 miles to our destination and the longest it took for everyone to show up was 20 minutes. You just need to make sure everyone has a good map, good directions and phone numbers for every driver. A little bit of work on someones part, but it is much safer.

 

Barry

[Oak Tree]

I've dealt with car breakdowns on a couple of trips. I do think that a caravan would be convenient for those cases. I wouldn't have all the Scouts stop right there on the side of the road with me (I agree that's unsafe), but instead have them pull off at the next gas station or something, and send a car or two back for me and the Scouts in my car. It's much more convenient to try to arrange for a tow-truck, or to pick up a rental car, or to split the Scouts up among the others cars, if there are some other cars handy.

 

In practice, even though we don't caravan, this hasn't been a big problem at the time of the breakdowns. As long as cell phones work (admittedly, not always), you can just call another car or two and have them find you. Plus, oftentimes, even though we aren't caravaning, we often end up hanging around the same general vicinity of roadway as the other drivers. If it weren't for cell phones, though, I think this might be a much stronger argument for using a caravan, or of having some way of knowing if the last car is going to make it.

[Gunny2862]

We tend to travel in a multi-node format, for now.

One or another Parent always seems to want to go early - no problem.

 

The Trailer (if taken) and others who may try to stay in sight of it or another familiar vehicle.

 

And as John said, Tail-end Charlie - usually but not always me.

The Point - our first to go tends to call back with any issues - bad roads, bad directions, another unit on our reserved site, etc.

 

Alterations to plan are made and usually texted between boys in different cars.

 

It's working for us.

 

 

[fgoodwin]

I haven't taught Health & Safety in a few years (is it even still offered?), but I'm pretty sure the prohibition on caravanning is mentioned in that syllabus.

[Pack212Scouter]

I suppose it's a matter of semantics, but I consider that there is a difference between caravaning and "travelling together." Caravaning is a group of vehicles staying in line together. "Travelling together" would be a group of vehicles headed to the same destination, keeping in contact with cell phones & radios, using GPS, and making stops together.

[Beavah]

Yah, I think da actual G2SS thing says "convoy", not "caravan". A convoy is a military / civilian trucking term which means traveling in a secure line and generally not allowing any other vehicles in.

 

A caravan is an ancient term, referrin' to a bunch of people traveling together for commercial purposes. Unlike a convoy, a caravan is goin' to have vehicles moving around, switching places, dropping in and out, and allowing other vehicles to cross. And camels .

 

My take on it is that G2SS frowns properly on convoys, but allows caravans. Again, there are lots and lots of da U.S. where cell coverage is poor to nonexistent, and lots and lots of rural and mountain roads where yeh don't want non-locals out driving on their own, especially in da north in winter. Caravan-ing, which we scouting types also call "the Buddy System", can be a safety necessity.

 

After all, when we teach da Buddy System for boys or for boats, we don't teach "oh, you just meet up occasionally" or "oh, you just keep in touch with your buddy by text messaging." The buddy system works by actually being with your buddy or your buddy boat.

 

Or your buddy vehicle(s).

 

As fer scouts on da side of the road, don't yeh all teach your boys road safety and managing breakdowns? Yeh should! Stoppin' to help stranded motorists or assisting at accident scenes is part of our Oath, eh? Boys need to know how. They're goin' to be drivin' on their own soon enough.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[bilgerat]

Thanks again to all. These forums certainly are helpful!

 

Like most things, it sounds like moderation is the key. Don't "convoy", as Beavah says. Great idea to pass out maps, swap cell phone numbers, and go over the route before departure. Nothing wrong with "caravaning" in the way Beavah described.

 

Thanks also for pointing out the safety issues on both sides. I usually find that understanding the core issues is more helpful than having a blanket policy, but no insight.

 

Blessings to all!

[evmori]

Beavah is correct. The G2SS states not to convoy. Big difference.

[Scoutfish]

It's almost a technical thing: A convoy is an unbroken line of vehicles heading for a particular destination. Think of funeral processions or military convoys.All vehicle stay togethjer including not stopping for stop signs, traffic lights and other traffic. Usually, there is some sort of traffic control in place.

 

Now, if each scouter and parents know where to go and just happen to be in line, that is okay, as long as there is no convoy mentality. As long as ther is a break for traffic signal, road conditions or what not, all is ok.

[Frank17]

Regardless of whether you call it a convoy or caravan, it is impossible to:

3) Meet for departure at a designated area.

4) Prearrange a schedule for periodic checkpoint stops as a group.

5) Plan a daily destination point. A common departure site and a daily destination point are a must.

 

and do this without traveling together as a group, since presumably you all left about the same time and are following the same route.

 

The problem comes in when the drivers are fanatical about following the scout car in front of them, hog the lane, and do not let any other traffic in (think Smokey & the Bandit trucker convoys). If you are all on the highway at the same time, this is allowed, as long as you are each driving a normal pace and follow the traffic and rules of the road, which may cause you to separate.