Our troop meetings are boring and not very productive

[Mafaking]

 

 

I try and get the PLC to develop the agenda for the meetings but what they come up with, is just unimaginative. We sort of follow the program aid but I don't have the books handy at all PLC's.

 

How do you keep you troop meetings productive?

How do you get the youth leaders to set lively and productive meetings?

[John-in-KC]

1) Meetings are only a building block, the youth time in the field (Outdoors Method) is the dominant feature of program.

 

2) What kinds of skills inter-patrol competitions are you doing? Do an "iron skillet chef" night. Do a first-aid round robin. In better weather, go to the park; use GPS to set up a simple orienteering course.

 

3) Use PLC as mentoring time to demonstrate putting life into dull boring meetings.

[Lisabob]

Teaching the PLC to properly plan a good meeting is a ton of work. It requires a lot of encouragement, a lot of extremely specific instructions, a lot of follow up, and a lot of "show me" or "demonstrate to me how you plan to do this" type of interactions.

 

Let's face it. Running a good troop meeting is a lot like managing a classroom (though hopefully more fun). Teachers who go into every class and wing it because they haven't got more than a vague notion (at best) of what they are going to do that day are seldom highly successful teachers. Planning a good lesson, figuring out exactly how it will be implemented, and how long each component will take, and having some back-up tricks for just in case takes time, preparation, and practice. Kids need to be taught how to do this if they have a chance at running a better troop meeting. We need to model it explicitly.

 

Too often, kids say to us, or we tell kids, "make the meetings more fun" or "better" or "more productive" without giving them the proper tools to do it. Handing the kids a book and saying "here are some ideas" is great, but it is not the same as actually being able to implement those ideas.

 

Kids also learn by doing and seeing. If they're used to boring and repetitive meetings, they will replicate that. Kids are often NOT terribly adventurous. They are conservative creatures who are afraid of risking looking dumb or something not working. Half the time they don't even know what else is possible, so they stick with the same old, same old because it is safe and they know what it looks like.

 

Changing meeting culture is tough. You need to guide the PLC through every step of the process, more than once, to start to make a difference here.

 

I've been watching my son's PLC as they struggle with this, too. They know they aren't happy with how things often go in meetings. But they are extremely resistant to doing any serious advance preparation to make things different. And in talking with my son, I think they probably would be more open if they actually knew what it takes to run a really good meeting, and what a really good meeting should look like. Someone needs to show them, first, and then break it into manageable steps (with deadlines and follow-ups). Then maybe it will start to happen.

[Mafaking]

 

 

That's really insightful Lisabob.

 

 

[EagleBeaver]

At the PLC meeting, the SPL announces who the 'service patrol' and 'program patrol' are for the next few upcoming troop meetings. The service patrol does set-up and clean-up. The program patrol comes up with activities, games, and skills which are approved by the PLC.

 

This way, each patrol leader comes up with fun, interesting activities only about twice every six months. That distributes the leadership tasks and reduces the whining about boring meetings - a patrol tends to not complain about its own activities and some try to come up with new ideas.

 

The scoutmaster trains the SPL at the start of his term to make sure he understands the parts to a troop meeting, the importance of 'fun' and 'active', and providing him with resources for activities that he can share with the patrol leaders. We have the Troop Program Resources and Features books, but scouts tend to use www.BoyScoutTrail.com for a good selection of activities, and there are other sites too.

 

[Beavah]

Yah, what Lisabob said.

 

Runnin' meetings is somethin' kids start with completely blank brains on, having never had to do it. Runnin' kid meetings is something most adults aren't real great at either, so odds are the boys haven't seen great examples.

 

Two thoughts.

 

One is that you can change what happens in your meeting so that it's closer to the kids' area of experience/expertise. Have the meetings outdoors. Run 'em like "practices" rather than meetings. Yeh still have all the planning issues Lisabob talks about, but da execution is somethin' that the boys will have some background in.

 

Second is that yeh model it for a bit. A pair of adults with a pair of PLC member partners plans and runs a bunch of meetings together. The adults are responsible for everything in the beginning, but they set aside double da usual time so that they can "think out loud" in front of the kids, and the kids can actually see and hear their thought process. Those meetings have to really, really hum, so that all of the boys get some good examples in their head of what "fantastic meeting" looks like. Then the adults slowly fade and hand things a bit at a time over to the boys. So they "share" meeting planning for a bit, then the boys take over part and da adults share in part, then the boys take over the whole thing and the adults just do Roses & Thorns afterward. Then that SPL/ASPL gets to lead the "how to run a meeting" training for their replacements!

 

Yah, another good thing to do is to take 'em to visit a meeting of another troop or two. Good or bad doesn't make any difference, eh? If it's good, you've got some ideas to take back, if it's bad, you've got some thoughtful reflection about "whether we look like that sometimes."

 

Last, in these days of ubiquitous video, yeh can videotape 'em. Nuthin' quite like seeing yourself as "the boring guy" to inspire a change.

 

Beavah

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[Eagledad]

I'm seeing two different discussions here: one is how to run the meetings well and the other is how to make them fun. A troop can learn how to run a meeting well, but that doesn't mean it's fun. We had a saying while I was Scoutmaster, "If its not fun, change!".

 

Lisabob said some really good stuff, but I don't really agree that boys aren't very adventurous. Boy are adventurous when they are given permission to be so. Youth today have been developed to rely on the adults, so when they are given free rein, they just don't know what to do. Like everything else, they just need to practice being adventurous. Once the pump is primed, watch out!

 

These dry spells happen every so often as leaderships change and move on. In fact this is one of the classes we taught at our JLTC. Our troop change this some by allowing the adults to participate in annual planning. In our meeting, that adults were allowed to submit as many ideas as the other patrols. This is where we went kind of wild. We once suggested a trip to Alaska and another time one to Russia. We purposely picked trips that scouts would think impossible just to get them to discuss and see the possibilities. By the way one of our Crews went to Alaska three years after that meeting. One scout just couldn't get it off his mind. Those are extreme examples, but just suggesting a back packing trip or a canoe trip is enough to think out of the box for many troops.

 

The other idea is we would change the meeting area just a Beavaher suggested. Our summer meetings are always outside.but we also went to a nearby park or lake once-in-a-while for orienteering or looking at stars. Just last year a muscle car club brought all their cars to a meeting. That idea originated when some of the scouts wanted to do the auto mechanics MB. One thing led to another and a car show happened. A really cool car show.

 

Fire Safety? invite the Fire department, or visit an emergency room. We did this once when I asked the PLC to deal with some unsafe fire practices I witnessed a camp.

 

Our PLC once planned a whole meeting dealing with Space. They found some easy ways of building rockets at each meeting.

 

Gun safety is always a big hit and the PLC once asked a local Fly Fishing Club to come in and teach fly fishing.

 

Scouts thought of those ideas and generally it started with a little idea that was pushed to big ideas.

 

Thing is to help the scout learn how to think out of the box. Boy run doesn't mean adults can't contribute ideas. It just means the adults ideas shouldn't carry more weight than the scouts. And the adults need to learn to make a suggestion and walk away. Let the scouts determine if the idea is worthy. Adults have a lot of stupid ideas too.

 

We can get into the discussion of how the boys can learn to run really good meetings and I would certainly enjoy that discussion. But "Fun" should precede business. You want the scouts to look forward to the next week. Once you have that, its easy to teach them the leadership skills of running a good meeting.

 

Barry

[BadenP]

Mafaking

 

Let the PLC boys use their imaginations to come up with some fun ideas for the meetings, with the PLC lead by example show them how to do it right, give them resources and then turn them loose, ASAP. If your meetings continue to be boring the boys will stop coming and your troop will die. Meetings should be mostly fun if you want interaction from the whole troop, many things can be learned in a fun setting as opposed to having them sit there for an hour with someone droning on and on lecture style. Hands on and fun activities are the key.

[BrentAllen]

I think the problem boils down to not being able to come up with ideas (the lack of advance preparation Lisa mentions). Our PLC has the same issue, and I think I finally figured out why. If the PLC meeting is at 7:00, the boys start thinking about Scouts at 6:59. They wait until they are actually in the meetings, sitting at the table before they start thinking about the program. Then, they have no resources to work with and they end up like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

 

I've tried to point out that they need to be thinking about Scouting during the week, looking for good ideas for meetings and activities. Boy's Life, Scouts from other Troops, other programs (parks & schools) all provide ideas, if they would do two things - keep their eyes (and minds) open, and jot down some notes so they don't forget when that brilliant idea comes along.

 

This thread has given me another idea - starting a "Suggestion" box at meetings, where other boys can submit ideas. Maybe come up with a simple prize each quarter for the idea that turns into the best meeting. Yes, I know, ideally they would pass the ideas up through their PL, and hopefully we will get to that point. Right now, I'm more interested in getting the ideas flowing.

 

Good thread.

[Lisabob]

I agree Barry, that boys can be very adventurous and creative. They don't have to be conservative and shy about putting out new ideas. I also agree that they are trained, in our society, away from exhibiting the former behavior a lot of the time, and that scouting can be a wonderful tool to develop their own sense of confidence in their ideas. Consequently, because many boys are conditioned to think inside the box (and the box is often fairly narrow, adult-driven, and boring), they tend to need a LOT of encouragement and hand holding AT FIRST, to get them to peek out of the box. Once you empower them with proper tools for doing cool things on their own, then watch out! Because they can and will amaze you.

 

But it is the starting point that is hard for many troops, I think, and that's what Mafaking seems to be saying about his troop right now.

 

I also agree - very strongly - that meetings do need to be enjoyable for the boys, or they will simply drift away from the troop and from scouting. Of course fun and productive *can* be the same thing in many instances, but that takes a lot more planning in order to execute well.

 

 

[John-in-KC]

Brent,

 

Think about how most of these kids are being educated in grades 5-12: COMPARTMENT ... brief transistion ... COMPARTMENT ... brief transition ... COMPARTMENT ... LUNCH ... COMPARTMENT ... brief transition ... COMPARTMENT ... go home. Their education is not holistic; they generally do not get to describe their day.

 

The thinking of planning hours to days ahead is a skill which has to be learned that is the antithesis of the method of operation they actually use.

 

I agree with you in your description, but I think the challenge is bigger than you describe it

[BrentAllen]

John,

I completely agree. That, coupled with their age, where they are really only concerned with what is going to happen in the next 30 - 45 minutes (at least that is what I see in our oldest boys, at 14), is a big problem to overcome. I think I will start hitting the PLC with quick and short emails a little more often throughout the week, in hopes of getting them moving in the advance planning direction. Some of this is just going to come with maturity.

[shortridge]

For that "thinking about Scouts throughout the week" goal, go to your local office supply store and buy a stack of reporters' notebooks - they're like steno pads, but skinnier. They fit right in your back pocket, very unobtrusive. Give one to each member of the PLC with instructions to carry them and write down ideas as they come, reporting back at the next meeting. That way there's no excuse - "I forgot what my idea was" ... "I didn't have any paper" ... "I left my notebook at school/in my backpack."

 

Generally, troop meetings should be preparation for monthly (or so) outings - each with a specific goal (activity planning, menus, skills training, etc.). So each meeting has an important role to play in the overall yearly plan, and each member of the PLC can readily see how it fits in and explain that to his patrolmates. Thus, meetings are quickly elevated from the routine to the anticipatory.

[Twocubdad]

Sorry for coming late to the party, but we were camping all weekend.

 

When OneCubSon and I joined the troop six years ago, the weekly program alternated between British Bulldog, dodgeball and an occasional game of capture the flag.

 

When I took over as SM we went heavy into the PLC planning and executing seven-part troop meetings. We had monthly themes with the instruction time focused on the theme and the activities sometimes a little less so. We spent a great deal of time training the guys how to do the instruction and working with them individually. Unfortunately, it rarely went well.

 

We are a fairly young troop, and certainly were back then. The older guys did fine teaching very basic skills to the new kids, but when they tried to lead more advanced instruction for the older boys, they simply didn't have the expertise in a given subject to really bring anything to the table. Many 13- and 14-year-olds are going to struggle with content. Trying to then make a presentation both instructive and entertaining is exceedingly difficult. We came to the realizations that our troop meetings -- at least instruction portion -- was 25 kids bored to death by another kid who didn't want to be there either.

 

A ripple effect of this was that the activities were also suffering. The Scouts responsible for the meetings were spending so much time focused on instruction they frequently forgot all about planning an activity or patrol game.

 

Consequently about two years ago we made a commitment that the adults would take a heavier hand in the instruction and the boys would re-commit to running the activites. It's not a 100% thing but varies greatly depending on the topic. For example, one month this winter the theme is built around Law merit badge. (No, it's not a merit badge class, we do it the right way.) Our SPL has arranged for one dad, an attorney, to do coordinate the instruction, including bring in guest speakers. I know a lot of the kids a looking forward to it.

 

But the Scouts still get a chance. Since December is a short month with only two regular meetings, we had the new Scout patrols do presentations on cold weather camping and first aid. It was pretty bad. The only guys doing any learning were the guys doing the presentations. But that's okay too. That's still part of the process and the other guys in the troop understand that, too.

[AvidSM]

Having adults teaching skills instruction at meetings is not a bad thing, especially if there are not many scouts who can do it right. "Adult taught" does not conflict with "boy led". And, in time some of your boys will learn how to do skills intruction right and will start volunteering to do it instead of the adults.

 

As for meeting planning, don't expect the younger scouts to know how to do it - they have to be given a lot of adult guidance. Depending on the maturity level of the PLC, a scoutmaster may have to bring most of the ideas to the planning meeting. Keep it boy led - give them lots of ideas and let them pick.

 

It is hard to get them to think about it in advance. They come from school still in the "reactive mode". You have to stress the idea that it's their meeting and they have to run it. Even if they have not brought any materials or ideas to the table, you have to give them time to think and decide what to do.

 

Another problem with meetings is the the scouts don't do what they planned. I'll ask, "I thought we were doing thus-and-such, what happend?" The SPL will respond, "Jonny scout was going to do that, and he's not here or forgot about it or didn't bring the materials, etc..." It's more disappointing than bad planning.

 

I learned to expect that a boy-led troop is only capable of so much in terms of performance. If you use the Forming/Storming/ Norming/Performing model, I think the boy-run PLC model is on average stuck between Storming and Norming. There are times when they do perform, but its the execption and not the rule. I like to focus on the positive and give them a lot of praise when they do perform.