Startup Troops: Patrol Leaders

[Beavah]

Yah, BrentAllen was describin' in da previous thread how in his startup unit, he now has boys who have been Patrol Leaders for a few years but are still relatively young (age 13-14 Brent?).

 

Goin' forward, PLs typically won't be movin' into that role until they've had more years under their belt than these fellows did, and then will stick with PL into higher ages.

 

BrentAllen is facin' da question of what to do during that transition with the older guys? One option is creatin' a senior leaders' group (SPL & troop positions, like da old Leadership Corps). I was discouragin' that, because it so strongly pulls his Patrol Method troop back toward "Troop Method", as the cool older fellows become troop leaders and the PLs become poor second cousins. But it certainly is one way to go, if he works hard at developin' an adult-style service orientation in 'em, like a JASM.

 

(my issue, BrentAllen, is that you're goin' to have too many of the fellows knockin' around. One JASM in a troop your size is plenty. Too many, and the only thing they have to do is get in da PL's business).

 

What other thoughts do we have for him as he wrestles with this?

 

Beavah

 

[Beavah]

One option yeh might think about is runnin' a Venture Patrol as a pull-out program (or dual-chartering a crew). Take those boys and run high adventure trips with 'em, and then have them bring that experience back to their patrols to continue to improve da kinds of patrol and troop trips that get run.

 

So yeh take one or two guys to make 'em PL/APL (or Pres/VP) to plan a high adventure trip, like a two week whitewater rafting camp, with rescue trainin' and the whole shebang. The PLs etc. participate in that, but stay as PLs.

 

Then da troop organizes troop or patrol whitewater activities, and the PLs are in a position to teach and lead their patrol in a whole new way.

 

Doesn't have to be whitewater, of course. Pick from da vast array of more challengin' trips in your part of the country.

 

Yeh get a couple of new leadership positions for guys who really need "out" from da PL grind, but yeh keep the Patrol Leader and PLC as the coolest/most knowledgeable guys in the program, and give 'em new challenges - new challenges to test themselves first, then new challenges of leadership in challenging activities.

 

Just a thought, eh? One of da cool things about the BSA is that we've tried all kinds of things over the decades. Even though those things aren't on da books anymore, they still work for a lot of kids and units same as they did back then.

 

Beavah

 

[Basementdweller]

I know of a troop that has a 13 year old SPL.

 

We lost most of our older boys. We have a couple very inexperienced PL's. Not doing a very good job, buy hey they are new. The adults leaders have discussed borrowing a SPL and ASPL from another troop that meets on a different night. Not recruiting away from the other troop but having them help train our PL.

 

What do you think?

[eghiglie]

My own experience has been a disappointment with younger PL's and SPL's

 

Founded a new troop in 2007 with 6 boys, a 16 yo Star Scout joined who was very immature. By default he became the SPL, never planned a meeting and just wanted to play. He wound up quitting the Troop after 9 months. Later found out he was tossed out of his old unit for telling fibs and mooning people.

 

The next SPL was 12 yo and a great kid, planned his meetings but because he was the shortest kid no one listened to him, he is now 14yo and the oldest boy in the troop. He is now Troop Guide/

 

The 3rd SPL was similar to the first, all he wanted to do was fish. EVERY MEETING. At summer camp he cut most of his classes, he wound up quitting the troop because he didn't earn any badges.

 

The SPL I have now is 13, a great kid but won't plan a meeting, even if I sit down with him he loses the sheet by next meeting.

 

I think age and focus has a lot to do with it. I'm trying to get the 14yo to run for SPL again. He grew about 9 inches since 2007 so the others might listen to him.

 

We have elections every six months, the thing I noticed is that tallest boy wins. Not sure why this is.

 

[Stosh]

With start up troops, I would think that with only one or maybe two, on the outside guess, maybe three patrols, I don't see any reason for an SPL/ASPL combo. All they will do is interfere with the development of the PL's. If the PL's aren't given a true chance to lead, how are they going to learn?

 

I would focus on the patrols having them group in terms of interests, i.e. NSP works with early advancement, and older boys, more challenging activities. If the older boys want to do a nice trip, maybe invite the PL of the NSP if he is older along as a guest.

 

With only two patrols, there is nothing really necessary to do on a troop level. Maybe the PL of the older boys or the APL of the older boys could double as a TG for the NSP. The two patrol QM's could work out the gear/equipment together without a Troop QM. Same for the patrol scribe, etc. Once one gets to three or four patrols, to facilitate the inter-patrol organization a troop TG/Scribe might help things along.

 

I would say that unless there's some sort of miraculous 40 new Webelos boys wanting to start up a new troop, one is going to have a relatively small troop to begin with. Why organize it with a lot of "chiefs" just so the boys think they have some prestige. Go with the basics. Solid patrol development, each member having a job, PL, APL, patrol Scribe, QM, Grubmaster, etc. so everyone can get some basic training for later on when the troop grows. Otherwise one has an overload of troop officers which in a top down structure which promotes troop-method results rather than patrol-method dynamics.

 

If the new troop is small, i.e. 8 boys, why would one want to have two patrols? Just put together a good solid patrol and work from there. If that patrol goes off to a camporee and the event expects an SPL to go to some meeting, just send the PL along and have him double at the SPL. I always love it when someone makes the PL of the only patrol in the troop the SPL. First of all he can't honestly earn the POR rank because there's no other PL's for him to be senior over. He is in a POR which is impossible to honestly fulfill. Chair the PLC? That should be a piece of cake since you are the only one on the PLC....

 

The second year, the troop takes on 6 new Webelos boys. I'd have the PL go over to the NSP and train them in the patrol-method and be their PL/TG. After all this is what he did the prior year with the NSP just forming the troop. If the 2nd year boys want to do something fun, invite their old PL back as a guest because his spot was since taken over by the APL. If the APL had been paying attention it shouldn't be a stretch for him. Pick someone else from the old patrol to be APL and maybe have another boy be Instructor for the NSP.

 

Each of these positions allows for the boys to try on many different hats without having 30-40 boys in the troop. By the 3rd year, the first PL now knows how to be a PL, a PL of NSP, and would make a great TG for the NSP. The original APL would move up to PL of the NSP and would now be working as a team as they did the very first year, but their focus would be on troop development as they work with the NSP.

 

Let each boy move slowly through the ranks as they gain experience and confidence. It's easy to give out patches and have mom's sew them on. It takes time and hard work to have the boy actually get comfortable in functioning in the position.

 

eghiglie: Why are you continuing to pound your head against the wall? It hurt the first time, it'll hurt the next time too. Put your best boy in the SPL, and quit letting the boys elect boys who don't want the job.

 

Whatever happened to voting democracy? Out the window? Maybe, but at least there is a better chance at program success if the person in leadership actually knows what to do and wants to do it.

 

Orchestras, bands, and sports teams have been doing this for years. The best players get the lead spots. No one in the orchestra votes on first-chair violin. No one on the football team votes for quarterback, but in Scouts, we take the freshman boys, put them on the varsity team where the varsity players don't want to be, and then complain because the team can't win any games. When you set the process up to lose, chances are you're going to lose most of the time.

 

Stosh(This message has been edited by jblake47)

[John-in-KC]

A startup from my experience takes a strong Scoutmaster. If possible, it should also beg, borrow and steal some older youth for the first year or so. These youth need to be part of the startup process, and should receive fieldcraft and leadership training before receiving the first youth.

 

Then, bring on the first class of Weebs inbound, such they have some leadership to role model after.

 

I've seen a Troop do 11 year olds on startup with no older youth. The learning curve for those kids is huge, and there are lots of tears of frustration, because generally they don't have the skills or the maturity to to fully cooperate in a small society.

 

My thoughts. Brent, I wish you well in this endeavor. If nothing else, get a strong TG and a strong QM to start things off.