If all levels of Scouting went coed

[BadenP]

Sorry emb21 but your third hand information about Campfires gradual demise is just plain wrong. As I said before my wife was actively involved, and still is, at the time at local, council, and regional levels and the gay/atheist issue had little to do with their severe drops in numbers according to the report from their National headquarters, which my wife has a copy. I wish emb21 you would support your ridiculous argument with some facts, but of course you can't, before stating something which is just plain untrue. First you claim you are the BSA Venturing expert and now an expert with Campfire, give me a break already.

[BrentAllen]

Uh... BadenP... emb021 was quoting Eagledad, it wasn't his own statement. If you read his post again, you will see he says he is NOT that familiar with Campfire. Try reading more carefully before pulling the trigger.

 

To answer the original post, I would find something else to do. I'm not interested in being SM for a co-ed Troop. I have a son and a daughter. They get plenty of interaction with the opposite sex throughout the year at school, church, everywhere else. Boy Scouts should be for the boys.

[BadenP]

Score one for you Brent.

 

emb021 please disregard my prior post, my bad, sorry!

 

So Brent if the BSA went coed you would leave scouting, and the negative would be?

[Oak Tree]

I can't imagine that any initial change would involve declaring that units can't discriminate. I think that any initial change would be most likely 1. the addition of all girl units, and/or 2. a local option for co-ed units. Still, that's what happened in Canada, and then they forced all the units to go co-ed. I don't think that's likely for a *long* time here, if ever. Still, it's interesting to hear the reaction.

[BrentAllen]

I wouldn't be around to keep correcting you on all your many mistakes. Someone else would get stuck with the dirty job.

 

I'm sure you are still looking for the "separation of church and state" clause in the Constitution. Question - will you be observing the national religious holiday tomorrow, or will you be working, as a protest to the obvious mixing of church and state?

[BadenP]

Brent my friend if scouting was able to rid itself of all the backward thinking dinosaur era scouters like yourself it would be a far better place, lmao.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

[SctDad]

My question is, why is it there can be no Boys organizations anymore. why do they al have to be coed.

 

I do not buy the statment that ALL girl scout troops are boring and have no scout/outdoor skills taught. My duaghters troop does these type of things. Blame the individual leaders, not the whole program. Just because some people cannot or will not do anything outdoors is not a reason to blame the whole program.

 

I still think that a coed program at all levels is a bad idea.

[bsaeagle81]

When I was in High School I went to a all male Catholic Military High School. It was one of the greatest periods of my life. We had comraderie, leadership and esprit de corps. There was an all girl school down the street that we participated in dances and homecoming with. Scouts was similar to the schools. Boys had a chance to be boys and all the fun, learning and mischief that that entails. I firmly believe that there should be things for boys only and things for girls only. There will be plenty of opportunities to mix and mingle. Boys need a chance to learn and grow into men and Scouting is hands down the right way for that to happen. My vote if I had one is to keep it the way it is for Cub Scouting and Boy Scouts but encourage participation by both sexes in Venturing when they are older. I have 6 kids, 4 boys and 2 girls. They all understand that they all have their own interests and do not try to tag along with the others when they do their own activities. They encourage each other but do not try to take over. The girls understand and are encouraged to try their own things for sportsand academics and are willing to be patient until they can join Venturing. they want their brothers to have the opportunity to do their own thing in scouting.

 

That my two cents for what its worth.

[Mr. Boyce]

I'm not saying the following to be a piece of grit in the conversation, but WHY EXACTLY would BSA want to include girls?

 

Just for bigger numbers?

 

I'm not sold------and there are plenty of supportive examples------that bigger is really better.

 

WHY include girls?

[BDPT00]

Just for the sake of argument ... I think that the most discriminated group these days is white American straight Christian males. Maybe that's why people join the KKK (the only reason I'm mentioning that is that I don't need someone else to do it for me).

It's OK to have a gay parade. Can we have a straight parade?

It's OK to celebrate Kwanza in our schools, or to sing Dradle, but we'd better not have a "Christmas" tree.

It's great to have an International Women's Day, but can you imagine a "Men's Day?"

Ever run up against Affirmative Action? Are there scholarships available for your sons because of their race or ethnicity?

Can an employer fire you for poor performance, or is he intimidated by litigation brought on by some advocacy group?

Now ... this will obviously draw criticism, but I'm simply raising an argument. We have an organization for boys. Our membership requirements discriminate against gays, athiests, and girls. The Girl Scouts will welcome gays and athiests, but they're pretty careful about men. We're the bad guys, and the closer we are to the majority (WASPs), the more we're scrutinized. Nobody out there is going to advocate for me. We're heavily criticized for our exclusivity. What's next? Is a twelve year old going to sue us because he can't join Cub Scouts and race his derby car? We have specific joining requirements, and I think we should keep them. There are other organizations out there... this one is for boys.

Do groups need advocates? Sure they do. That's fine, but it feels like in order to be for something, they have to be against something else. I don't think that something else should be the Boy Scouts.

So there. I've loaded this up with plenty of politically incorrect comments. Have a ball.

BDPT00

 

 

[BrentAllen]

BadenP,

Thanks for the compliment. I do think the 1937 SM HB was the best one ever written, and we have lost a lot of what made Scouting great. Funny, I saw in another thread where you said the greatest Scouter you worked with as a DE was a 75 year-old, with 50 years of experience in Scouting. I'm sure he wasn't a "backward thinking dinosaur era" Scouter, right?

[BadenP]

Hey Brent

 

You are most welcome my friend. Look, I agree with you and others here that I wish not only the BSA could stay the same but that we could reintroduce more of the pioneer type skills back into the program which IMHO would attract more boys into the program then all the crazy twists and turns National is trying to do. The reality of the world today with the breakdown of the nuclear family/single parent homes and a real disconnect of our society with nature has put the program in serious jeopardy. National has and will continue to change the BSA to reach out these youth and my fear is in ten years you will not be able to even recognize the scouting program. I am waiting for Mazzuca to make the announcement any day now that in order to allow scouting to survive the program will go entirely coed. To answer your question that 75 year old volunteer was a real forward thinker, he even talked about coed scouting at one point. I have to say that I agree with Kudu that the boy scout program has gotten watered down over the years. The question then becomes how do we save scouting and at what price?

[desertrat77]

I'm all for co-ed.

 

I respect the opinions to the contrary; however, I can't help but wondering when I read them what we are really saying about our youth.

 

Are our boys that fragile?

 

Are our girls that profound a negative influence?

 

If so, it begs more questions that the potential co-ed status of scouting.

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Boyce]

I don't think girls are a negative influence. Neither are women, but I think it's easy to overlook some very subtle things by simply continuing to promote the whole equivalency movement.

 

What do the boys miss out on if the program went co-ed?

 

For my part, I return to the notion that boys need an arena in which they can learn cooperative team work and leadership. Our society, I feel, has overemphasized male competition, through sports and video games, etc., and so it's good and wholesome to advance the proposition that boys can work together on projects in which the notion of "winner" and "loser" do not apply. It's important---real life presents many such situations very different from the formulaic and highly-structured sports games. The level of social complexity is larger, I would argue, in these kinds of endeavors than in sports competition, especially since the goal in sports is usually going to be very immediate and very clear-cut and roles within sports teams are rigidly drawn.

 

It helps with social development. Girls tend to be more cooperation-oriented and much more socially developed than the boys. . . so I think the boys would really lose if the program went coed. You would be putting together two generally different groups, and in the end, doing poor justice to the needs of each.

 

I think, too, that you would find the two groups having very different views of the advancement system. And different views of the importance of the outdoor program.

[BadenP]

desertrat

 

You make some very valid points, but I don't think it is a matter of fragile boys or girls being a bad influence. In truth I think many of us in scouting want to preserve the organization which we participated in as kids, as well as preserving the 100 year old historic heritage. Most people hate to see change occur with things viewed as institutions.

 

Conversely, with the rapid changes occuring in our society, especially over the last 50 years, I think change in the BSA is inevitable. Our current society does not seem to value preserving things of cultural or historical value or significance as being as important than past generations. Would the BSA survive going totally coed, I think so but it would never be quite the same organization it once was ever again. In my experience girls really thrive in the Venturing program and contribute a lot to the program, and IMHO is the right age group for scouting to be coed. I don't think the same could be said at the cub or boy scout level. The bottom line is that decision will not be made at the local level but at the National level and we will have to wait and see.